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Today I attended a river watch course in hfx not only to help with conservation and habitat issues but also to clarify some things for myself.

Two very valuble things I learned and confirmed today I would like to share with you all b/c I have seen these "violations" timne and time agn, and I am sure that some fishers are breaking the rules although well intentioned and aren't aware they are doing so. As we all know some of the rules in the book aren't as clear as they could be leaving interpretation that could land anyone of us into hot water. I know when I first started fishing agn a few yrs back I was guilty of the 1st until I found out better.

1. Once you have your limit of fish either on the ice or in your creel you must cease fishing. You are not allowed to continue fishing even if you are planning to catch and release. Also say you have your limit of two fish on friday you go home and eat one but not the other, by the rules if you go fishing the following day your limit is 1 not two b/c the posseession limit is the same as and equal to your bag limit.That being said I have seen ppl fish once they have their limit and dnr has showed up and said nothing, however this doesn't mean it is not the rule it just means you got lucky. Also even if you are given mis information from those who are suppose to be in the know you can still be held accountable, as fustrating as this may sound.

2. Cycling of fish is not allowed. That is if you catch a fish put it alive in a cooler of water then catch a second bigger fish you are not allowed to place the firt back into the lake etc so you can keep the bigger one. There is no aeration and this stresses the fish and if released the risk of mortality is increased.

What alot of pple don't know is that a fish may actually die sooner in a bucket of water than lying out in the air b/c once the oxgen is depleted in the water which is in the bucket the fish can not breathe and in essence drowns...yes that is what I said a fish CAN drown. Sounds weird I know

Anyway just wanted to share with you all if I have screwed this up in anyway Bill pls chime in and correct me. Just don't want anyone getting into trouble b/c things weren't clear

Hope this helps

cheers and tight lines

Girlfisher
 

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Hey Little Sister,

Well said. We both know that many anglers interpret the rules to suit their needs. I, as you know disagree with some of the rules as you do but... we follow them anyway and join organizations such as River Watch so that our voices will be heard and we can contribute to the betterment of our hobby. If you, and when I say you, I am referring to whomever is reading this, nor specifically girlfisher, think that there is a silly, stupid or ridiculous rule, then please, by all means fight it. Join a fishing organization, write a letter to your MP or call the DNR but DO NOT break the law, because when you do so you lose your argument immediately. People like us join River Watch and similar organizations not to be bully's or because we could not pass the entrance requirements to the Navy Seals but because we are passionate about and love our environment and want to know that we can fish in amazingly beautiful surroundings for many years to come and fish with our children, grandchildren, etc without being worried that some numbskull decided that the rules don't apply to them that day. Maybe it's your birthday, maybe it's the first day of fishing season or the last. Does not matter the rules apply. Like I said if you don't like em, change em, but if you brake em, we will report you.

Happy Fishing 20111,

James
 
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thank you for this.
i was aware of stopping once you had your limit, but i wasnt aware of:

Also say you have your limit of two fish on friday you go home and eat one but not the other, by the rules if you go fishing the following day your limit is 1 not two b/c the posseession limit is the same as and equal to your bag limit.
can you pm me the info to get in on this River Watch course, id be interested in taking it
 

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Good information, some of this I knew some I did not. Other than the Annual Guide book issued with your license, which is very general in nature, where can the detailed regulations be found. The requirement to stop fishing once you have caught and retained your bag limit makes sense but I must admit I was not aware of this and have been guilty of this once or twice.
 

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can you pm me the info to get in on this River Watch course, id be interested in taking it
It was held yesterday. I missed it because my vehicle was frozen shut, but I'm certainly interested in attending the next class, too.

Incidentally, has a class (either explaining the rules or the full River Watch program) ever been held at the outdoor show?

Paul
 

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2. Cycling of fish is not allowed.
Girlfisher
Hi Girlfisher
This is definitely a major problem in Keji and other places I'm sure where you can catch more than your limit. Upgrading they call it there. I've even seen some TNS members upgrading their catch!
If the limit is 5, after you get 4 when you catch a trout and its larger than your smallest trout the little fellow gets a swim. Hard to detect from a distance - a dead trout makes about the same splash as a live one. Hopefully something will be done about it but the chance of anyone getting caught are remote.
Thanks for the upgrade. The River Watch is a good program. My compliments on you making the effort to attend.
Paul
 

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Hi;

I have the greatest respect for the 'rule of law'. Theoretically it is what makes life in human societies live-able.

Unfortunately the 'theory' has many practical flaws. The first may be said to be 'ignorance'. In common law "ignorance of the law does not excuse the infraction". But in actual fact, it very often results in non-enforcement. Laws and regs that are routinely ignored or glossed over only breed a wider contempt for Law in general. The, "Hey, I got away with it!!" mentality.

I would offer that the retention limits and the games played with them are among the worst offenders when it comes to flaunting conservation laws. And the worst of that are those who retain smoked, pickled, salted and frozen individual fish carcasses and never think to include them in their 'limit'. Moreover, I know of no law nor enforcement or prosecution that ever comes into effect in these cases--unless and until someone starts selling the 'swag' they've stored up. As long as this state of affairs continues, bag limits will continue to be scoffed at.

This problem is not eased by NSDF promoting large bag limits, particularly on large fish. Being allowed to keep 20-25 fish per day is just asking for trouble. It might be better [?] to limit weight instead of number, and to keep that weight at the max. to which a normal family of four could/would normally consume at one family meal. That is, instead of 5 trout, any size, ungutted,-- rather a max 2 lbs, [or 3k] of trout, any number, any size [above a certain minimum]. Catch a 2.5 lb trout, it must be released.

Any thoughts. [And please don't call me names for suggesting this.
]

Meanwhile, Kudos to River Watch, which I will join just as soon as I can afford a decent video camera.

cheers,

chuck
 

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The law itself causes the cycling of fish ! I live In NB and I run into this every May the river I fish the retention limit of brookies is 5 in which 2 can be 12" or greater.I have seen ppl. Trade off dead fish !!! I seen dead fish floating in the area of 15" and to top it off I have seen believe it or not ppl. putting thier limit in the cooler at the camp and head right back on the water! What angers me is when you report this stuff as I did knowing that it's a yearly thing with certain ppl.that enjoy the long weekend in May. Last May not a soul around to check on it!
 

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The law itself causes the cycling of fish ! I live In NB and I run into this every May the river I fish the retention limit of brookies is 5 in which 2 can be 12" or greater.I have seen ppl. Trade off dead fish !!! I seen dead fish floating in the area of 15" and to top it off I have seen believe it or not ppl. putting thier limit in the cooler at the camp and head right back on the water! What angers me is when you report this stuff as I did knowing that it's a yearly thing with certain ppl.that enjoy the long weekend in May. Last May not a soul around to check on it!
Hi there,
The law is not causing this, the people who are breaking it are. I agree, there must be enforcement - and that's where River Watch comes in. It ups the chances significantly that someone will get caught, and therefor lowers the practices that you are talking about.
The group yesterday did very well, and I look forward to many reports from them, on whatever activity they see (and Chuck - you don't need a video camera - although that's an interesting idea!).
If any other group wants to be trained in the River Watch program, simply go to our website or drop me a line.

River Watch

Bill
 

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Today I attended a river watch course in hfx not only to help with conservation and habitat issues but also to clarify some things for myself.

Two very valuble things I learned and confirmed today I would like to share with you all b/c I have seen these "violations" timne and time agn, and I am sure that some fishers are breaking the rules although well intentioned and aren't aware they are doing so. As we all know some of the rules in the book aren't as clear as they could be leaving interpretation that could land anyone of us into hot water. I know when I first started fishing agn a few yrs back I was guilty of the 1st until I found out better.

1. Once you have your limit of fish either on the ice or in your creel you must cease fishing. You are not allowed to continue fishing even if you are planning to catch and release. Also say you have your limit of two fish on friday you go home and eat one but not the other, by the rules if you go fishing the following day your limit is 1 not two b/c the posseession limit is the same as and equal to your bag limit.That being said I have seen ppl fish once they have their limit and dnr has showed up and said nothing, however this doesn't mean it is not the rule it just means you got lucky. Also even if you are given mis information from those who are suppose to be in the know you can still be held accountable, as fustrating as this may sound.

2. Cycling of fish is not allowed. That is if you catch a fish put it alive in a cooler of water then catch a second bigger fish you are not allowed to place the firt back into the lake etc so you can keep the bigger one. There is no aeration and this stresses the fish and if released the risk of mortality is increased.

What alot of pple don't know is that a fish may actually die sooner in a bucket of water than lying out in the air b/c once the oxgen is depleted in the water which is in the bucket the fish can not breathe and in essence drowns...yes that is what I said a fish CAN drown. Sounds weird I know

Anyway just wanted to share with you all if I have screwed this up in anyway Bill pls chime in and correct me. Just don't want anyone getting into trouble b/c things weren't clear

Hope this helps

cheers and tight lines

Girlfisher
One thing that may help people (and I know one fellow asked about where the full regs are) is that the rules as we see them in the Angling Handbook are very good, but they are just a summary of the law. The full Acts (and you'ld have to consult several to cover all fishing situations - everything from the Angling Act to the Wildlife Act) are online, though if you wish to read them.
Then, you also need to know legal interpretation. For example - the "cycling" or "upgrading" - the law says you can't possess more than your limit - and what people may fail to recognize is what constitutes "possession" in law. Generally, this has been ruled on in cases, and has created pcecedents and so is agreed upon as ""possession limit" referring to the number of species, or individuals of a specie or species, which is under one's control." A fish in your livewell, or in a cooler or even in a rock pool on the beach (don't laugh I've seen this) is under law "in your control" and therefor is part of your limit. If you have 4 in hand and one in a cooler or whatever and the limit is five - you're done. Fishing once you have reached your limit (that is you have in your possession your limit) is similarly placing a fish under your control (even, as ruled on in law if your intent is to catch and release), so again, you would be over and breaking the law if you continue fishing once your limit has been reached.
So, to simplify, we can say just as GF did above - if you have your limit, you're done for the day. Similarly "cycling" as I described would be illegal.
Hope that helps,
Bill
 

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So, to simplify, we can say just as GF did above - if you have your limit, you're done for the day. Similarly "cycling" as I described would be illegal.
Hope that helps,
Bill
Ah yes Bill but folks who break the law probably know the law better than those who don't! So if the limit is 5, they will just keep 4 - and start cycling, upgrading whatever at that point.
Same with shooting ducks - keep one less than the limit and tramp a Green Wing teal into the mud should a mallard come along.
Maybe I shouldn't be exposing these little loop holes!
Have a great day.
Paul
 

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Ah yes Bill but folks who break the law probably know the law better than those who don't! So if the limit is 5, they will just keep 4 - and start cycling, upgrading whatever at that point.
Same with shooting ducks - keep one less than the limit and tramp a Green Wing teal into the mud should a mallard come along.
Maybe I shouldn't be exposing these little loop holes!
Have a great day.
Paul
Hi Paul-
Yes - but GF's point, and my answer, is that it IS illegal, whether one knows it or not (and we were giving the benefit of the doubt to some and thinking maybe they didn't know...)
If a RiverWatch monitor or a warden or whoever, observes someone doing such activity, they can be charged. In any case, they are also putting more pressure on the wildlife, and this should be discouraged out of hand.
And to be absolutely clear - that is NOT a "little loop hole" that is breaking the law.
You have a good one, too.
Bill
 

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Yes - but GF's point, and my answer, is that it IS illegal, whether one knows it or not (and we were giving the benefit of the doubt to some and thinking maybe they didn't know...)
If a RiverWatch monitor or a warden or whoever, observes someone doing such activity, they can be charged.
Bill
Bill I got no doubt they know its illegal - but they know they can get away with it.
The RiverWatch program that I took we were told that no way were we to get involved in enforcing the law. Phone DNR was the only recourse. Has this being changed? There is only one warden in Keji that can lay any charges and that has to be pretty clear cut. Over the limit in hand. I suspect the same applies province wide. Not a cheap solution with the cost of lawyers nowadays.
Enjoy the evening
Paul
 

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Hi Paul-
Yes, the old RW was good, but we have made some substantial improvements -namely being that we can bring the complaints quickly and working together with the Department can have a much better chance of doing something. As well, because we now record all observations, patterns can be detected and applied to law enforcement activities. You now phone DNR, but we also ask that volunteers call or report to us as well and working together we can better the odds of something happening. The "that has to be pretty clear cut" is that if a RW person records something that can bring a prosecution sometimes, or can help establish a pattern that might lead to action - and RW itself can do some things working in concert with other agencies. The issue with the old program was that nobody recorded what was going on, now we do. It makes a BIG difference. You are correct, it is not enforcement, but it is, as we teach the RW volunteers "active observation".
The new RW really works - volunteers who have been trained in the past should consider re-upping and taking part in the new program - they wouldn't need to be totally re-trained, they'd only need be made aware of the changes.
Hope that helps,
Bill
 

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The new RW really works - volunteers who have been trained in the past should consider re-upping and taking part in the new program - they wouldn't need to be totally re-trained, they'd only need be made aware of the changes.
Hope that helps,
Bill
Thanks Bill
I hadn't realised things had changed that much. In the old system I never knew how to contact RW for example. All the cell phones certainly make it easier.
Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi Girlfisher
This is definitely a major problem in Keji and other places I'm sure where you can catch more than your limit. Upgrading they call it there. I've even seen some TNS members upgrading their catch!
If the limit is 5, after you get 4 when you catch a trout and its larger than your smallest trout the little fellow gets a swim. Hard to detect from a distance - a dead trout makes about the same splash as a live one. Hopefully something will be done about it but the chance of anyone getting caught are remote.
Thanks for the upgrade. The River Watch is a good program. My compliments on you making the effort to attend.
Paul
Mushamush, just b/c you are not river watch doesn't mean you can't report it as well. Call DNR poaching line which by now I hope you all have written on your fishing licence( I have ranted abt this already
) Take pics with digital camera or cell phone and keep track of what ppl look like and report it. DNR doesn't necessarily come right away but may do a stake out and get back to you but it does take patience I have learned. Pics are great they don't lie. And if you know who they are(refering to TNS members.... tisk tisk) give names when you report it they don't have to know it was you who reported. You don't have to give your name if don't want too. And get in contact with TNS I am sure they would like to know the black eye they are getting.

Bill said he will plan a session down in Yarmouth in near future I know it is a bit to travel as I went the other way( b/c I couldn't wait) but we could arrange a little group fish after too


Remember fellas there is no such thing as a innocent bystander no need to hold their heads under water but a phone call only takes a few mins. If enough calls are made they may put more wardens out.

You are not a snitch your a fish' hero that sounds better eh?

cheers and thank for the kind words
 

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[quote name='girlfisher' date='27 February 2011 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1298855032' post='10469']
Mushamush, just b/c you are not river watch doesn't mean you can't report it as well.
And get in contact with TNS I am sure they would like to know the black eye they are getting.
Thanks GF
I done the RW thing and have a hat! Thats about as far as that went. If I see it where I can get, I'll be there.
I got in contact with TNS about it once. They wouldn't put my note in their newsletter but wrote a release of their own. If mine was whiskey, theirs was pop - they watered it done so much. I should have demanded CF write the article!
Have a good spring
Paul
 

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mushamush said:
I done the RW thing and have a hat! Thats about as far as that went. If I see it where I can get, I'll be there.
I got in contact with TNS about it once. They wouldn't put my note in their newsletter but wrote a release of their own. If mine was whiskey, theirs was pop - they watered it done so much. I should have demanded CF write the article!
Have a good spring
Paul
Paul-
If you see something that you wish to report, good or bad, please don't hesitate to use our website at RiverWatch (http://www.riverwatchns.ca) and click on the "Leave a Reply" link at the bottom of the page. If you fill out your name and e-mail , I will get back to you as to what results from any report. I would make that offer to any of the RW monitors out there - current or past. Current, newly trained RW monitors know what to do, and I would encourage those who took the training years ago to also pitch in and report - both to DNR and to us. Together we'll make a difference.
Bill
 
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