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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
do the leaders used for fly fishing need to be specially designed or can i just use some new monofilament that i bought for my spincast?
 

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Jurme, You can build a tapered leader out of any Mono but Bugman's Maxima mono for leaders is sound advice. The best way to start is to buy a tapered leader and just add the tippet as needed. The transfer of energy down the line to the fly requires a tapered leader or the leader will fall back at the end of the cast as the energy stopped at the end of the line and didn't transfer down the leader. The attachment of the leader to the line is critical as you do not want a hinge. You should be able to take the leader in one hand and the line in the other and when you push together to make an ark it will be a perfect bend where the attachment is made. I use a needle knot. I also like to make the leader material 2/3 the dia of the line at this point.
My point is a tapered leader is only utilized if the energy moves down the line thru the leader to the fly. If the knot from the leader to the line is not correct the energy stops at this point and doesn't transfer down the leader and you lose the advantage of the tapered leader. Good luck!
 

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Jurme, You can build a tapered leader out of any Mono but Bugman's Maxima mono for leaders is sound advice. The best way to start is to buy a tapered leader and just add the tippet as needed. The transfer of energy down the line to the fly requires a tapered leader or the leader will fall back at the end of the cast as the energy stopped at the end of the line and didn't transfer down the leader. The attachment of the leader to the line is critical as you do not want a hinge. You should be able to take the leader in one hand and the line in the other and when you push together to make an ark it will be a perfect bend where the attachment is made. I use a needle knot. I also like to make the leader material 2/3 the dia of the line at this point.
My point is a tapered leader is only utilized if the energy moves down the line thru the leader to the fly. If the knot from the leader to the line is not correct the energy stops at this point and doesn't transfer down the leader and you lose the advantage of the tapered leader. Good luck!
Question--

Do 'loop to loop' connections spoil this energy transfer?

Thanks,

chuck
 

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Yep sure can! Not always some form the arc and cast well, some not so good. I dont use the loop to loop because it serves no purpose to me. I only change the tippit as needed. I had problems with hingeing on interchangeable sink tips that use loop to loop and the manufactuer changed them amd now they work well so I do use loop to loop on my line. Nothing is cast in stone as I am looking at furled leaders and they only come with a loop so I aint painting myself in any corner! LOL
 

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Yep sure can! Not always some form the arc and cast well, some not so good. I dont use the loop to loop because it serves no purpose to me. I only change the tippit as needed. I had problems with hingeing on interchangeable sink tips that use loop to loop and the manufactuer changed them amd now they work well so I do use loop to loop on my line. Nothing is cast in stone as I am looking at furled leaders and they only come with a loop so I aint painting myself in any corner! LOL
Thanks, Perry. Another question. Some things I've read say you need a very limp leader for small flies and a delicate presentation, but a very stiff butt leader, preferably short, for large flies, in order to turn them over.
Is this correct?

While I'm at it, furled leaders are twice, even three times, the price of regular tapered leaders. So aside from shy brown trout [and maybe salmon, I don't know?], when would they be worth the extra shekels?
 

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No, not correct. A properly designed leader is 2/3 stiff 1/3 limp and it doesnt matter what use or fly you are useing. That is one big reason Bugmans formula with Maxima leader material is a good one.
As far as a furled leader goes I am a newbe. I used one a few weeks ago fishing browns with a borrowed outfit that had a furled leader on it and I was impressed. Worth it? I suspect for most fly fishers no. They in my limited experiance need a good cast to start with to do the job and are not as forgiving as mono, if you get my drift.
 

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Thanks, Perry. And thanks Bugman. I'm going to try and make those "Grey's Loops", since I always have trouble with the standard, 'line to leader' knots.

cheers,

chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thank you very much for the help. My next question concerns the tippet. Is flourocarbon decent to use? I would ahte to lose a fly to a pickerel.
 

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all great advice. i use maxima chamelion as well and flourocarbon for the last 2 feet or so and for tippet.
 

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From my experience a tapered leader is a must unless you are chuckin huge flies on short leader. Loop to loop connections at the fly line/leader connection ok if tag ends are cut tight. Leader to tippet not so good. For example for dry flies, where there isnt much weight in the fly , a straight leader simply will not straighten out as good as it should because of the small diameter and limpness of the leader. This is why you need a tapered leader and a tippet setup. The tapered leader will assist in rolling the fly out farther and straighter compared to just a sraight piece of 4lb maxima. Big flies on the other hand are usually tied up to pretty heavy leader so a straight piece wont be as much of an issue as the flies will help throw themselves out. However, big LIGHT and wind resistant flies will need a tapered leader to help them out along with a short tippet. Hope this helps and doesnt confuse too many people. This is what just works for me. A good way to save on tapered leaders is to use a small barrel swivel at the end of the taper of the leader. Then all you have to do is connect a piece of maxima to the swivel and start fishin again. Every time you change or add a new piece of tipper to a tapered leader you have to cut the knot off and this makes it shorter and shorter. A small barrel swivel prevents this. Dry fly actin is dif though. You cant use a swivel or ur flies wont stay afloat unless ur usin big foamies for bass and snakes. Oha ya, fluorocarbon sucks imho. No knot strength at all. It is very clear and sinks well but it cant even compare to maxima which is the best tippet/leaver evrr!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
thanks again for the help guys. i went up to lake loon yesterday afternoon and caught about a dozen little smallies on the fly, the first few were the size of my gold fish, but a thrill none the less... i think i'm hooked.
 

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If you want to build your own leader there are tons of formulas that you can use depending on the application. I have a 130 page book on just leaders. Who would of thought that someone could go on for 130 pages about 10 feet of fishing line. A nymph leader is constructed completely different than a leader used to swing a fly. However a good general leader formula is the Ritz formula. Basically it is 50/20/20/10. Most leaders should be the length of the rod so lets say you have a 9 foot 9W rod and you want to swing a wet salmon fly, a 10 foot leader is good. Start with 5 feet of a leader material that is about 2/3 the thickness of the fly line diameter (as indicated by Perry). 30lbs usually works well. Then 2 feet of 20 lbs, 2 feet of 15lbs, and 1 foot of 8-12 lbs and I would normally add 6" to 1ft of 8-12 lbs as a tippet. This will really roll over your fly and should give it good presentation. This formula works real well on Bass flies and plugs, when you want to turn over that flies that is tie with 1/2 of a chicken.

Loop to Loop connectors are getting better but I only use them when i know I am changing leaders a lot or some multi-tip fly lines come with them. Rio for example has developed a real good connector compared with what was produced 8 years ago. If you want performance and you are not chewing up your leaders, connect your leader directly to your fly line with something like a Nail Knot.
 

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Hi;

FWIW, I tried to do that "Grey's Loop" but could not find a mono stiff enough to hold the energy [they recommend 12 lb test] yet thin enough to pass through the flyline twice. So I'm back to making loops in the flyline, for better or worse.

cheers,

chuck
 

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Hi;

FWIW, I tried to do that "Grey's Loop" but could not find a mono stiff enough to hold the energy [they recommend 12 lb test] yet thin enough to pass through the flyline twice. So I'm back to making loops in the flyline, for better or worse.

cheers,

chuck
 
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