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Estimated Salmon Numbers


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#21 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 11:43 AM

For decades we have observed the decline of atlantic salmon and have followed the recommendations and the advice of DFO. The problem is the actual problem for salmon has never been idenified and the symptoms have been treated like they were the problem. It may be that the problem is a collective of the symptoms in other words the salmons decline could be a death by a thousand cuts and not one. 

If you believe that hystory repeats itself concider this. Many years ago the mainland moose was in serious decline and the problem was not idenified so what to do? Sancutaries were set up and no hunting in these areas but the moose continued to dissappear. The last resort was to eliminate hunting and so it was done. Didn't help! After the moose was gone the problem was discovered, it was a brain worm that deer introduced! So stopping hunting didn't save the moose anymore than stopping fishing will save the salmon. We need to find the problem not resort to a solution to a problem nobody seems to understand.and stopping fishing for salmon will not help! imo

Perry I agree with much of what your saying but consider this. When the St Marys fell through the floor, how long did it take? A  year? 5 years? 25 years? If you can give me one of those answers, is'nt it easy to decide not to fish for a repectful angler. If you can't answer that question thats even more reason not to fish until we know whats going on. Spreading the word of fishing to our youth is a great thing, but spreading the word of conservation should be in the for-front. Its really sad to see these experieced salmon fishermen laughing and joking to one another that they will be the end of the salmon. And they really do think they've figured it all out. You've got guys posting pictures of them teaching there kids to roll cast in areas where if they hook a salmon, itll beat itself off sharp rocks and do nothing but spread bad edicate. Its time for things to change,You see how things are progressing, you more than anyone on here should be all for complete wild salmon protection. My kids will learn about salmon and salmon habitat, but make no mistake, we'll be fishing for Big browns and Bass which is more than enough for fisherman who understands Salmon fishing has nothing but a negitive impact in at very least mainland nova scotian rivers. The capes not far behind. When the Striped Bass nearly dissapeared in the inner Bay of fundy in the 90s the Bass association took it on there back to fix things and things are now showing signs of being even better then the pre-90s....just sayin


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#22 zymtoot

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:05 PM

Negative impact on salmon, while you are fishing for invasive species(browns, im not sure if you are referring to smb or stripers but smb are invasive.)?Isnt that kind of contradictory? Three of Cape Bretons rivers,the last two years had the most returning salmon in over 30 years.Some as many as 400% more.


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#23 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

Stripers, I have no interest in fishing for smallmouth. I am however interested in smallmouth irradication, if it were possible


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#24 mattd

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

Every post I see on here from you always trying to stir up ****.  You really add no value because of your uneducated statements and "I am always right" attitude. 

 

Don't ever make negative statements about what you "assume" is happening in a pic.....especially one I posted.  Feel free to PM about it before you act like a keyboard coward.

 

Perhaps if you had someone to teach you, then you would think before you speak.  I thought not to long ago you were leaving the site...what happened?? got bored???

   

 

 

 

 

 You've got guys posting pictures of them teaching there kids to roll cast in areas where if they hook a salmon,


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#25 Robbie Hiltz

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:48 PM

What Matt said!!!


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#26 csft

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

It is somewhat amusing that somebody who buys a salmon license for the first time in their life and after not having much luck can spend a few minutes on Google doing research and suddenly becomes an expert on salmon populations, salmon farms, angling effects and lord knows what else.

 

Do yourself a favour and join a conservation group, attend meetings and get yourself truly educated before you climb up on that soapbox. There are people posting in this thread that have spent more years doing dedicated conservation work for our native species than you have spent fishing.


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#27 StripperGuide

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 07:21 PM

Salmon farms have a place and one place only. Close inland pens could be used to keep oldschoolers from pressuring wild stocks. There denial is probly the biggest pressure on  each river individually. Do any of u know the effects on salmon eggs inside a hen as your fighting it? If any of you say No damage at all, your rod should be sent through a shredder....

Sure do...they take wild stocks of hen and male salmon off the North Shore rivers and milk them every year to help the survival rate .There are crates along heavy populated fishing holes so tht when you are done fighting the fish you put it in the crate and they pick it up later on in the day . Those eggs all survive . Anything else you need to know...BTW you may as well give me your rod so it will catch a fish to help out the population ..no need to fill our landfills with your garbage


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#28 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:18 AM

Some people have careers budd... I don't remember mentioning your name, and Your Attitude is stating your the know it all. Your obviously blind to whats happening to the salmon right in front of your face. Im not here to argue, this site is supposed to promote conservation and the fishermen on here should be coming together to change things for the better, for the future. Sounds like most of you just want to fish them until there gone. If thats me stirrin up $%#@ then im sorry but what am I stirring up? If getting some of you to realize theres a big problem means arguing with a few of you fine.


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#29 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:30 AM

It is somewhat amusing that somebody who buys a salmon license for the first time in their life and after not having much luck can spend a few minutes on Google doing research and suddenly becomes an expert on salmon populations, salmon farms, angling effects and lord knows what else.

 

Do yourself a favour and join a conservation group, attend meetings and get yourself truly educated before you climb up on that soapbox. There are people posting in this thread that have spent more years doing dedicated conservation work for our native species than you have spent fishing.

Another know it all, Ill have you know i spend over 100 days a year fishing, fill at least a dozen garbage bags with others trash every frekin year and have done work to keep one of my local brooks healthy and full of specks. You don't know me but you'll remember me and what i've said when the salmon are gone.


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#30 csft

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:50 AM

Another know it all, Ill have you know i spend over 100 days a year fishing, fill at least a dozen garbage bags with others trash every frekin year and have done work to keep one of my local brooks healthy and full of specks. You don't know me but you'll remember me and what i've said when the salmon are gone.

 

A know it all ? Nah, just a well informed conservation minded angler.

 

Would you like me to list the conservation groups i support, the groups that i am a director of, the amount of river restoration work i have been involved in, the amount of trash i pick up every year, the amount of meetings i go to every year, etc, etc etc .... If this is going to turn into a bragging contest about everything the people who are posting in this thread do for salmon and trout conservation then i assure you that your list is severely lacking.

 

As i said before, do some real research before getting up on that soapbox.


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#31 Perry

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 08:58 AM

I believe that the fact that I buy a lisence and dont use any tags and fish for what is left in NS to fish for has a more positive impact than not fishing. In other words I dont believe my fishing speeds up the decline of the salmon. The salmon anglers are the only ones who do the heavy lifting when it comes to trying to bring the salmon back and yes there is a vested interest

I see you like to fish stripers BS. Over twenty years ago stripers  became very scarce. One year I caught two small ones and that was it. No one put their rods down and quit fishing and now we seem to have a healthy population without doing anything except fish for them. 

I see more abuse by striper anglers than I do by salmon anglers. Just saying! Apply your talent and efforts to a species you are truly  interested. 


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Just because you fish a lot doen't mean you are great or even good. It just means you fish a lot!!


#32 csft

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:06 AM

I believe that the fact that I buy a lisence and dont use any tags and fish for what is left in NS to fish for has a more positive impact than not fishing. In other words I dont believe my fishing speeds up the decline of the salmon. The salmon anglers are the only ones who do the heavy lifting when it comes to trying to bring the salmon back and yes there is a vested interest

I see you like to fish stripers BS. Over twenty years ago stripers  became very scarce. One year I caught two small ones and that was it. No one put their rods down and quit fishing and now we seem to have a healthy population without doing anything except fish for them. 

I see more abuse by striper anglers than I do by salmon anglers. Just saying! Apply your talent and efforts to a species you are truly  interested. 

 

Well said Perry .... and on the topic of not using any tags, i currently have 106 unused tags turned into the shop for this years contest !!


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#33 salmonfreak

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:52 AM

I can admire Bass Salyers intent but his solution to the salmon problem ie. don't fly fish for salmon has no scientific evidence to support that it will deliver on the purpose of increasing salmon numbers.  Bass Salyer your link to a science publication does nothing to support your suggestion that axing anglers will assist recovery; in fact your article does just the opposite.  If you read and understand it you would realize that they found that post-smolt survival was positively correlated with oceanic water temperatures.  The warmer the temperature the greater the survival of post smolts.  This would suggest that environmental conditions, which are impossible for us to control, is a limiting factor in salmon survival.  So if we follow your wisdom we can kick all anglers off the river have cold ocean temperatures and still not get an increase in returns maybe there could even be a decrease if the post-smolt survival is low. It goes to what Perry says that there are factors which are likely more responsible for the salmon decline by stopping one aspect which has been shown to be negligible will probably have a negligible effect.  

 

When the salmon disappeared from the inner bay of fundy DFO still allowed anglers to fish even with the dramatic decline trends.  DFO argued that the salmon were going to disappear anyways, the anglers were not causing and wouldn't have stopped the decline if they were removed.   

 

So Bass Slayer if you want to help the salmon and have an idea to implement please provide some evidence to support your claim.  If you did some homework you will find that survival of salmon angled in cool water is virtually 100%.  Even with say a 3 % mortality assumption whos to say that those salmon would not have survived their journey anyways?  Maybe they were the wussy salmon bound not to survive therefore the 3% mortality from catch and release may not have actually been caused by the catch and release the salmon were just not as fit to begin with.  

 

Also you are not giving much credit to the survivability of salmon.  They leap water falls bounce off rocks and some look like they went through a shredder yet they still survive.  An angler fishing in a spot with rocks who hooks a salmon I think you have greatly exaggerated the actual harm a salmon may face if hooked.  

 

You have based your solution on what you believe will have an impact but have apparently ignored the existing science which clearly negates your proposal,  Its the same as those people who though slink salmon fishing was harmful.  Logically it makes sense not to fish for a skinny weak looking fish but despite what we think it has been shown that fishing for slinks is not harmful at all in fact they are more resilient then fresh returning salmon which people accept can be targeted.  


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#34 902

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:28 AM

 

 

....You have based your solution on what you believe will have an impact but have apparently ignored the existing science which clearly negates your proposal,  Its the same as those people who though slink salmon fishing was harmful.  Logically it makes sense not to fish for a skinny weak looking fish but despite what we think it has been shown that fishing for slinks is not harmful at all in fact they are more resilient then fresh returning salmon which people accept can be targeted.  

Just googled "slink salmon" and first webpage that comes up (http://www.easternwo...water&Itemid=55) looks an awful lot like perry hahha


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#35 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:31 AM

Say what you will and fish if you want. I don't need to be a member of a conservation group or restoration program to do what is right.. Salmon reproductive rates are not anywheres near a striped bass so the damage which has already been done will take longer to fix.The article I posted as stated was to  "get you started" I know what im posting...Oxford university has miltiple studies on atlantic salmon. I have much support from Pmers not willing to get involved with the "regulars" in this thread. Im glad to see just as many for a seize fire as against it. I will be pursuing this matter further, but won't be reponding to any more critical fishermen. Thanks again                                 


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#36 Robbie Hiltz

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:37 PM

What bass association helped the Stripers recover?


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#37 Perry

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 01:37 PM

Stripers Unlimited, and a few others all based in USA but in a lot of cases that is what we are fishing for. The explosion of stripers as a result of their work served us well.


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Just because you fish a lot doen't mean you are great or even good. It just means you fish a lot!!


#38 Shimanoman

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:59 PM

"Can we all get along?" ...........please??

 

 

Regards.......


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#39 LSF

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 07:21 AM

ok I'll weigh in. Does fly angling for salmon in NS harm the population? You bet it does!! There are still tags with licenses and there are still people tagging fish yearly. Does Catch and release angling harm fish in NS? Very, very few....but it doesn't help either ...yes I know that doing all the river work and belonging to conservation orgs and so on are noble attributes & I commend anyone who puts their time/$$ to such groups but people want to be on the rivers fishing for salmon because THEY ENJOY SALMON FISHING first and fore most!!! They aren't policing the rivers detering poachers, this will happen and always has happened weather anglers are on the rivers or not..lets call a spade a spade people are fishing fresh run salmon (and slink) in NS because they like to fish for salmon...is it going to effect the population in the long run? No in my opinion salmon are all but done for in NS....for reasons beyond the control of anglers, conservation groups, government Depatments so what the hell everyone may as well just enjoy whats left, get rid of the tags, fish for salmon while they are here and ..."all get along" ...cause Mother Nature is dealing the cards.....JMO
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#40 IceShanty

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

Well said LSF...
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