78 replies to this topic

[Terran]

Photo from: http://maritimecanad...01_archive.html

 

 

This topic has come up in various threads from time to time. Our Provinces forests have and are being devastated by un-regulated forestry practices. Large swatches of old growth, Acadian forest have been stripped away leaving moonscape like areas of barren devastation.

 

There can be no positive argument put forth in support of clear cutting. (Except by the Forest Industry) The practice is detrimental to the environment  with no positive effects. Soil erosion, sedimentation of waterways, run-off, soil desiccation and loss of animal habitat are just a few of the negative results of this practice.

 

Not to mention the stripping away of the very "lungs" of the planet.

 

Jaime Simpson - Photo from: http://axisoflogic.c...cle_57923.shtml

 

How often have you gone looking for a new place to fish, scouting if you would, only to come across one of these areas. Remember the sick feeling in the pit of your gut?

 

Take a look at the Ecology Action Centre's Gallery of photos from Nova Scotia Clear Cutting: Clear Cutting in Nova Scotia - http://www.clearcutn....ca/gallery.htm . When you get down the bottom of this site, check out the aerial photos link.

Northern Pulp’s operation (pictured here) has been certified as "green" by the Sustainable Forestry Initiative. (Jamie Simpson) Photo from:http://axisoflogic.c...cle_57923.shtml

 

You've probably came across some disturbing views of our province while searching Google Maps. You know the one. The large area of brown, deforested land surrounding some waterway you were looking to fish.

 

And despite promises, all that our Government has provided by way of Rules on Whole Tree Harvesting is delays. (See More Delays in Nova Scotia Clear Cutting Rules - http://thechronicleh...arcutting-rules ).

 

Now, I searched the Natural Resources website and could note find the "promised" new rules on whole tree harvesting. If someone has found them or knows where they are located, please post the information.

 

However, I figure they are sitting in a pile with the other "promised" stuff from the current Government.

 

Here is a site that addresses our NDP Governments Forest Policy - http://www.clearcutns.com/

 

I had read a post by Guest recently in the River Phillip thread and thought that there should be a topic where discussion on Nova Scotia's deforestation and it's effects on our outdoor endeavours could be posted.

 

Hopefully, this will generate some discussion (or disgust) on the topic of how our Forests are being decimated. Perhaps, members have photos or links that could further help depict the mess our Province has allowed to creep across the landscape.

 

Terran

[-----]

Great topic Terran. You know my feelings on clear cutting. I am not against forestry, just clear cutting. Will be interesting to see the responses.

[basindawg]

Absolutely disgusting,  How in in the name of time could THAT be called a green practice ?????    The only green i see is the tiny clump of "seed" trees left as a token to "conservation "  and "reforestation"  .  Total joke.  This cut will most likely be planted with Red Pine or Larch for a quicker profit turn-around =  Commercial Tree Farm.  Anyone flying over this province can easily see how much habitat has been lost but yet government condones these out-dated stupid practices.  Now I'm pissedofff all over again.

[Perry]

I am very fortunate to have 169 acres on Little River Lake that has an old growth Acadian stand.  Never saw the axe.  It also has large areas of bogs and wetlands people go there this time of year to find rare wildflowers, ducks, beavers other wildlife lives there.It is surrounded by clear cuts basically all thats left is on me. Now I harvest wood on my land just not on that old growth. The landowner has the say on how the wood is harvested on his land, I had a major cut a few years ago by Irving and I laid out the cuts with regards to wildlife corriders, old dead trees left for bird nests etc. set backs on brooks, certain hardwood stands left. They decided they could make money and I would as well so it was done as I instructed and done well. Not far from me the landowner clear cut his woodlots. His decision. 

If the deciding factor is as much wood fiber as possible and no other value is assigned that is what happens. There is no monatary value given to clear sparkling brooks, birds flitting thru the trees, walking in moss up to your ankles, the quiet silence of a mature forest it doesnt stand a chance of survival outside of protected areas. What is happening to Crown Lands and Private woodlots is not IMO sustainable and in the future the protected areas will be considered to be in the public best interest to harvest. This will take time and what is now a clearcut will be bio mass to cut again. The only thing missing will be old growth and everyone will forget how NS can grow massive trees but it takes a couple hundred years to see it again. Thats if we as a society can wait that long. 

[pmorris]

One of the things mentioned in the other thread was that some of the clear-cut lands are being proposed to become protected areas under the 12% plan. In other words, the devastated areas will be the 88% not included in the 12%, PLUS whatever part of the 12% is already devastated.  Doing the arithmetic quickly in my head, that will only leave 169 acres.  And Perry owns them all.

 

The forestry industry has done some brilliant public relations for decades. They have duped society into believing that forests are a renewable resource.  That's crap. You can't remove all of the nutrients in a tree without degrading the soil from which it obtained those nutrients.

[basindawg]

One of the things mentioned in the other thread was that some of the clear-cut lands are being proposed to become protected areas under the 12% plan. In other words, the devastated areas will be the 88% not included in the 12%, PLUS whatever part of the 12% is already devastated.  Doing the arithmetic quickly in my head, that will only leave 169 acres.  And Perry owns them all.

 

The forestry industry has done some brilliant public relations for decades. They have duped society into believing that forests are a renewable resource.  That's crap. You can't remove all of the nutrients in a tree without degrading the soil from which it obtained those nutrients.

 

Thats a fact jack.  there are also trade-offs between pulp mills and gov't - if a pulp co needs more timber there is often a trade where they " give "  already cut land in return for harvestable timber somewhere else.  It's a numbers and money game and wild resources, and ultimately us,  are the losers .

[Perry]

I have heard and that may or may not be the truth that most of the clearcuts that surrounds me has been purchased by the Province and they paid $1000 an acre for it. IMO way too much. There are many ways to help the forest industry.

[cooterspaw]

I just became a grandfather last winter and I feel bad for what he is going to have to look forward to in his life time but I do hope they learn to pull there pants up by the time he grows up lol

[Terran]

I was talking to a friend about this topic and he told me of a spot I should look at on Google Maps. Here's a lovely depiction of our"wild spaces".

 

Check this out - http://maps.google.c...Third Lake&z=14

 

Take a look at Bonaventure Lake; which is up to the right. In fact, drag the map around and look at the surrounding area.

 

Sad.

 

Terran

[-----]

Clear-cutting has many side effects, some are not as obvious to the non outdoors users. For example I own a 60 acre wood lot that is old Acadian farm land. Now full of some pretty large hardwoods, mostly Oak, with other species, Ask, Maple, some Wild Apple and a few Hemlock, Spruce, Fir and old Wolf Pines thrown into the mix. The Hardwood making excellent winter feed for Whitetails. It has been a pretty significant Yarding area for years. In big winters it would be nothing to see several dozen Deer as I snowshoe to my camp. Fast forward to two years ago. The adjacent landowner had 275 areas of mostly softwood. He sold it to a Broker  who hired a skidder/harvester. They clear cut the entire area, right up to my line, even cutting the line trees (that is another story in itself). Since this clear-cutting there has been but a few Deer only to stick around in the winters, the Bear, which were numerous on the land in the fall have gone as well. The Trout Brook that separates my lot from the other neighbouring lot now Floods and goes Dry soon after.

Clear-cutting destroys more then the obvious.

[Terran]

Guest,

 

Your comment about having the line trees cut on your proprty reminds me of a situation that happened to a fella I met a couple years ago. I might have posted this story in another thread, but I'll add it here as I think it might be important for land owners to read.

 

This guy's family had owned the property for generations. It was originally an old family home from back in the day. He used it for a camp. The property consisted of old growth forest with a stand of "ancient" apple trees behind the house.

 

He arrives at his property on this one occasion to find that the trees on his property had been cut. Even the apples trees. Totally pissed, he contacted the company that was in the area cutting on either side of his property. The company offers him "stumpage fees" for trees cut over a certain diameter, but says they were within their rights to have cut his property.

 

So he contacts Natural Resources.

 

They "explain" to him that if the cutters deem necessary, they can cut this guys property (now get this) as long as it isn't his "primary residence". He started to fight the issue, but gave up; as the damage was done and irreversible.

 

Interesting loophole that the Government can apparently use.

 

Again, it comes down to the total lack of respect for our natural resources. Greed, money...bullsh*t.

 

Truly sad to hear the effect the cut, adjacent to your property, had on the wildlife.

 

Terran

[-----]

Guest,

 

Your comment about having the line trees cut on your proprty reminds me of a situation that happened to a fella I met a couple years ago. I might have posted this story in another thread, but I'll add it here as I think it might be important for land owners to read.

 

This guy's family had owned the property for generations. It was originally an old family home from back in the day. He used it for a camp. The property consisted of old growth forest with a stand of "ancient" apple trees behind the house.

 

He arrives at his property on this one occasion to find that the trees on his property had been cut. Even the apples trees. Totally pissed, he contacted the company that was in the area cutting on either side of his property. The company offers him "stumpage fees" for trees cut over a certain diameter, but says they were within their rights to have cut his property.

 

So he contacts Natural Resources.

 

They "explain" to him that if the cutters deem necessary, they can cut this guys property (now get this) as long as it isn't his "primary residence". He started to fight the issue, but gave up; as the damage was done and irreversible.

 

Interesting loophole that the Government can apparently use.

 

Again, it comes down to the total lack of respect for our natural resources. Greed, money...bullsh*t.

 

Truly sad to hear the effect the cut, adjacent to your property, had on the wildlife.

 

Terran

In my case I had the harvester get off his machine. I came to him through the woods, he was surprised to say the least to see me there. We had words, not pleasant either. The Broker that purchased the land (from Truro) actually bought the land rather then stumpage. Therefore I am sure we will meet again as he told me he was going to replant. I doubt that, however it is what he said. I was not aware at this point, but after investigating he could legally  cut the line trees, as could have I have. Funny province we live in. The trees he cut actually had my survey markings on them, he cut above those markings leaving tall stumps. As well with no buffer, you know what happens to trees that have been sheltered and then harvested around them, they tend to get blown over when the ground is wet.

[Terran]

Nova Scotia Nature Trust’s Herbert River property (Photo from Chronicle Herald: http://thechronicleh...-site-protected )

 

Here is a positive story that hopefully will keep the clear cutting from decimating this beautiful spot.

 

 

Hants County site protected

June 20, 2013 - 7:46pm SHERRI BORDEN COLLEY STAFF REPORTER
 

Another pristine piece of Nova Scotia riverfront property is permanently protected from development.

 

 

Thursday night in Halifax, the Nova Scotia Nature Trust announced a conservation easement will protect a 34-hectare property on the Herbert River in Hants County.

 

The property is home to a rich diversity of wildlife, including many breeding birds, and provides important habitat for the Canada warbler, rusty blackbird, olive-sided flycatcher and wood turtle, all federally listed “species at risk” in Canada.

 

“Ecologically, this is a wonderful piece of land, but it’s also part of a bigger conservation vision, and that’s what makes it really exciting,” nature trust executive director Bonnie Sutherland said in an interview Thursday.

 

“It’s a really important freshwater legacy story because it’s part of a larger vision of protecting a (2,225-hectare) wilderness area.”

 

Dr. Dusan Soudek, a longtime nature trust member and volunteer, purchased the property in 2010.

 

“Basically, it’s to preserve it and to make sure that it’s preserved even when, at some point, when I’m gone,” Soudek said in an interview Thursday.

 

Soudek visited the land, near South Rawdon, for the first time on a canoe trip. When he later attended a public meeting, it turned out the property was for sale.

 

“The owner had no interest, no use for it. … The price was OK,” Soudek said. “I felt it was important to preserve it so I bought it.”

 

Located along a renowned back-country paddling route, the easement also helps to preserve an important wilderness recreation resource, something greatly valued by Soudek, a passionate canoeist.

 

“It’s for anyone,” he said. “People fish there, people kayak and canoe there, they camp in the area. There isn’t much Crown land along this river so it’s important to preserve these campsites on private land.”

 

Nova Scotia has committed to protecting 12 per cent of the province by 2015.

(http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1136745-hants-county-site-protected )

 

 

Nice to see an attempt to protect some part of this Province from deforestation or urban sprawl...whatever. Hopefully, this act will spark others to try to protect some of whats left.

 

Before it's all destroyed.

 

Terran

[Johnmac63]

I have heard of that happening many times Terran it happened to my father, he only had an eleven acre lot, they were cutting lot next to his and cut all his too, contractor said "oh no you only have two acres", the deed said right on it eleven acres.  All contractor is liable for is stumpage which is not much if you bother to sue.

 

When I lived out in the country I had a great spring fed well, four feet deep, water always cold and lots of it, gravity fed to the house, they cut all the trees up back and with in three years I had to dig a new well, once the root system dies from those big old growth trees there is nothing to hold back the water that sinks in the soil if it even gets to sink in the soil and not just run off, this affects the streams and brooks which in turn affects the rivers the same way it affected my well.

 

The only woods left I think is The green belt they leave along roadways so people can not see the mess that has been made, I look at Google maps of where I grew up and it is all cut, there use to be a game sanctuary/boy scout camp that was protected, Government took protection off it so that it could all be cut, not much left up there now and what is left won't be left for long.

[Terran]

In my case I had the harvester get off his machine. I came to him through the woods, he was surprised to say the least to see me there. We had words, not pleasant either. The Broker that purchased the land (from Truro) actually bought the land rather then stumpage. Therefore I am sure we will meet again as he told me he was going to replant. I doubt that, however it is what he said. I was not aware at this point, but after investigating he could legally  cut the line trees, as could have I have. Funny province we live in. The trees he cut actually had my survey markings on them, he cut above those markings leaving tall stumps. As well with no buffer, you know what happens to trees that have been sheltered and then harvested around them, they tend to get blown over when the ground is wet.

 

Yes sir...funny, messed up, mis-directed Province we live in. Indeed.

 

Can't believe they actually cut above the property markers. Surprised they didn't just slide em down the tree or claim they didn't see them.

 

As to trees that have grown sheltered and then are exposed with no buffer, this also occurs in these sprawling subdivisions popping up everywhere. My sister has a place in one out in Upper Tantallon. Every time the wind blows a fair gust, she loses another tree. The subdivision is literally criss crossed with deadfalls and broken off trees. Lovely view of a suburban landscape.

 

Just more lost wilderness.

 

Terran

[Terran]

I have heard of that happening many times Terran it happened to my father, he only had an eleven acre lot, they were cutting lot next to his and cut all his too, contractor said "oh no you only have two acres", the deed said right on it eleven acres.  All contractor is liable for is stumpage which is not much if you bother to sue.

 

When I lived out in the country I had a great spring fed well, four feet deep, water always cold and lots of it, gravity fed to the house, they cut all the trees up back and with in three years I had to dig a new well, once the root system dies from those big old growth trees there is nothing to hold back the water that sinks in the soil if it even gets to sink in the soil and not just run off, this affects the streams and brooks which in turn affects the rivers the same way it affected my well.

 

The only woods left I think is The green belt they leave along roadways so people can not see the mess that has been made, I look at Google maps of where I grew up and it is all cut, there use to be a game sanctuary/boy scout camp that was protected, Government took protection off it so that it could all be cut, not much left up there now and what is left won't be left for long.

 

It's a scary situation, when the people in control of this stuff have absolutely no clue as to how it works. Even when they "try" to figure it out; they rely on studies and reports by others who also don't seem to have a clue.

 

Common sense seems to have gone the way of the Dodo when it pertains to Government.

 

The really upsetting part is the loss.

 

Terran

[Nathan231]

How many of you have actually studied forestry and forest ecology? I bet my bottom dollar what most of you refer to as "old growth" is not old growth. Just because a stand of timber is "old" and has "knee deep moss" does not make it old growth.

[Perry]

I assume as I am the only one who said I had old growth you are referring to me. Yes a climatic stand of forest doesn't have to be old growth it is just the culminating stage of a natural forest succession for a given environment, the species are shade tolerant and are usually rock maple, yellow birch, beech, hemlock, red spruce are considered to be the climax species. So you are right in that regard. A climatic forest does not have to be old growth.

Then the question is why would I call it old growth? Well about twenty years ago lightning hit a rock maple and I salvaged the stem. Counting the rings it was over 200 years old as I recall so in the late 1700's it was a seedling. I don't know how you define old but that to me is old!

I have rock maples in my sugar bush that are as old I suspect but it isn't old growth it is just old trees. The mix of old mature trees that are shade tolerant tells me this is old growth. This of course is my defination , it may not be yours.

BTW if going to study forestry and forestry ecology would help me understand why the clearcuts I see are sound management and good for the forest ecology maybe I should go and become enlightened.

[Halfyard]

Great post Perry. Probably my single greatest goal in life (other than raising my family) is to have and protect a piece of land as you have. I hope to be able to do that one day in the near future.

 

Perry I would argue that you have studied forest ecology and forestry in the best way possible. Any good education starts with a natural desire and curiosity about a topic. Because I know the way you that look at things, I suspect that every time you set foot on your land you are learning. I also suspect that every time a new question has popped into your head, you found the answer somewhere. Some people find the answer in a classroom, some find it on their own!

 

On the broader note, I can't even discuss NS forestry issues (mainly clear cutting and biomass) anymore. They sadden me in the worst way and they represent everything I hate about our species.

[Terran]

Liscomb Game Sanctuary Clearcut

Image from: http://www.publicland.ca/liscomb.html

 

The Nova Scotia government established the Liscomb Game Sanctuary in the 1920's.

 

Now, one would think that the term "Game Sanctuary" would indicate a place of safety and refuge for wild game (animals, birds, fish). You can not hunt or trap in a Game Sactuary.

 

However, there are no rules preventing logging or road building? (WTF!)

 

So since the late 1980's this "sanctuary" has been bundled into long term logging leases and heavily clearcut.

 

 

If you can stomach it, here is a "sight" with further aerial photos of the "Game Sanctuary" clear cutting: http://www.clearcutn...al_gallery.htm#

 

If you would like to view some seriously disturbing, up close, looks at a "Game Sanctuary" take a look at the pictures on this link: http://bay-of-island...0505/index.html .

Make sure to take a look at the photo with the "Herbicide Posting" next to a water reservoir. What they don't destroy by cutting, they apparently try to finish with poison.

 

 

So if our government(s) would allow a Game Sanctuary to be clear cut there is nothing Safe or "Protected".

 

How long until demand takes some of our favorite areas? If they haven't been destroyed already.

 

Here is a site for the Nova Scotia Public Lands Coalition - http://www.publiclan...home/index.html

 

This group is trying to set up protected Wilderness Areas to protect and conserve Public Lands. This is just one of many organizations fighting against a government that absolutely cares little for anything that doesn't involve dollars or votes.

 

The trick is to make them care.

 

Here is the result: The Liscomb River Wilderness Area - http://www.gov.ns.ca...iscombriver.asp

 

Note on this site they fail to have pictures depicting any clear cut areas.

 

So my question is this, if they would clear cut a Game Sanctuary; how long untill the "need" arises to "harvest" these Wilderness areas? Are they simply protecting the areas while they await regrowth?

 

Terran