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Aquaculture Ass. Fights Back On New Website - Guess We're Getting Their Attention


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#41 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:13 AM

Not to be argumentative Terran but I read that a little differently but with the same result, shock and disgust. I read it as they tested for everything and looking for specifically ISAv as a reportable disease.. the rest of what they found are not reportable or they are not obligated to release because acknowledgment of them serves no purpose since they are isolated to the fish stock in question. They are still contaminated with something and were killed because of something or maybe it is a mutation... either way I think the wording of the release tells more than most think.

I have met Dr. Cussack many times, many years ago and he seemed like a Stand up guy at that time so I would like to think that my initial assumption to his character is still accurate and that he was forced to use political jargon to amaze and confuse the public into a false sense of security and not having done it maliciously... but i have been wrong before.
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#42 Terran

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

Exstream

I'd like to be able to give him the "benefit of doubt", but with the history of statements made regarding this industry by government and the impressive history of double - speak, lies and spin; I simply can't.

I believe what he said was completely accurate. They tested for ISAv. Why not state that there were NO diseases detected...period. He is being very specific in his statement and these guys are well briefed in what to say and how to say it.

I hope that I am wrong and that there isn't a disease on this site. I would like to see independant testing of these fish by the UPEI lab. With no government involvement.

Perhaps you can answer this question. Would the PCR testing for the ISAv virus easily indicate any other form of disease or does it have to be specifically tested for each individual virus? Would the ISAv test have shown any other virus if it were not being specifically targeted for testing?

I don't doubt that Dr, Cussack is probably a very good man. He is simply embroiled in a very "dirty" situation. It wouldn't be the first time Government told a scientist what to say. Thinking: Kristi Miller.

My gut tells me that there is more here. Guess we'll see.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#43 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

I am not dissagreeing with you at all on this matter. I can't simply because of past practice. As for the PCR test.. I believe once they run this test it is specific to the particular pathogen they are trying to match it to. Having said that once the results come out they could then effectively take that and see what genomic similarities it has with others but it would be time consuming. It has been so long since I ran one of these tests that I can't recall all the aspects. If memory serves you need a sample to compare it to while running it, a baseline if you will.

i too would be surprised if there were no disease or infection of any type at this location... it would be a first that is for sure..
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#44 Terran

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

You might find this amusing.

Just came back from a quick visit to the Superstore in Cole Harbour. As I usually do I took a look at the farmed crap on the Fish Departments shelves.

Laying out, right there in front, are two big slabs of Farmed Salmon Fillets wrapped up ever so nicely. There on these $10 fillets are Sea Lice. I counted three on the first fillet.

We all know that there are NO sea lice in Nova Scotia according to our Fisheries Minister. These guys must be here for a convention!

Took the fillets to the kid at the counter and to my amazement - he knew what they were.

I wonder if they'll trash the fillets or just pick out the extra protein and rewrap the crap?

Always look at the Farmed crap and like I just did make a loud and large deal about any "discoveries" you may find. :D

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#45 Terran

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

So I just took a look at the Aquaculture Ass. of NS's new website. There has been nothing posted since March 5, 2013. Apparently they have NOTHING to say regarding Snow Islands recent BAD news. :huh:

Snow Island Inc./Loch Duart has their application rejected and the Aquaculture Association has nothing to say?

The site does have quite a Database of Research available. Be assured that they have provided only the information that they have made certain will not damage their position. Yet, I plan on spending some time searching through it. You never know what little tid-bits one might mine out of the minutia.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#46 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

Brother you have too much time on your hands...lol...
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#47 Terran

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 07:49 AM

Brother you have too much time on your hands...lol...



:huh: Uh... :( Yup...

But somebody's gotta do it ;)
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#48 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

You got me there...go on brother, do whatcha do...
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#49 Terran

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:28 PM

I came across an article today about Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders and the study to examine the health of salmon. The study will apparently be done in phases over a period of several years.

Here is the story:

Canadian scientists to examine health of salmon

Canada: A four year study will be the first of its kind, and aimed at finding out if disease is causing mortality among salmon populations- particularly the young, outmigrating ones

The project will be led by Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders, Head of the B.C.- based Salmon Genetics division of Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) and Dr. Brian Riddell- formerly a scientist with DFO but who now heads up the non-profit Pacific Salmon Foundation. The third partner in the project is Genome BC- who’s goal is to generate social and economic benefits for British Columbia and Canada, managing a CAD$ 550 million (~€ 411.4 million) portfolio for research projects and science and technology platforms. The first of the four project phases is already underway, and is expected to cost about CAD$ 930,000 (~€ 695,600).

As a recent announcement states, both wild, farmed and enhanced salmon will be studied;

The project has been initiated for a variety of reasons, the primary one being the high mortality rate of juvenile salmon during their early ocean migration. There is a strong belief within the scientific community that infectious disease may be a significant factor in this mortality, but not enough is known about what disease agents might affect Pacific salmon in their natural habitats. What is known comes almost exclusively from observations of cultured fish (both in hatcheries and aquaculture). The project intends to clarify the presence and/or absence of microbes in Pacific salmon. To address this issue the initiative will involve a four-phased program to discover the microbes present in Pacific salmon that may reduce the productivity of our Pacific salmon. In the initial phase of the work the primary goal is to obtain collections of wild, hatchery and aquaculture salmonids from southern BC. This phase will provide a tissue inventory for assessment of microbes carried both by wild and cultured salmon in BC. The first steps also include the development of a stakeholder consultation process that will provide input to the information needs, public engagement and communications and ways to integrate research on microbes and disease on BC salmon.

The phases of the project are as follows:

Phase 1 (May 2012 to April 2013) establishes a large-scale sampling program, running over 12 months, for wild, hatchery and aquaculture salmon that will be conducted in 2012 and early 2013. These samples will be combined with similar samples collected from 2008 through 2012 to facilitate the broad scale microbe surveillance plan to be implemented in Phase 2. This Phase will not conduct analysis on samples.

Phase 2 (April 2013 to April 2015) will develop, test and validate a novel, high throughput genomic technology to get a 'snapshot' of the microbes carried by wild and cultured salmon in BC. This segment will also involve epidemiological assessments to identify when and where microbes are transmitted and how long they may have been in BC, high throughput genome sequencing to determine the evolutionary relationships between strains of novel microbes in BC and elsewhere in the world, and histopathology and microarray analyses to rank microbes by their potential to cause disease in wild salmon. Moreover, the aquaculture audit samples, which are the only samples collected from fish dying in the ocean, will offer an invaluable opportunity to begin to relate specific microbes with disease. Validation of assay results across laboratories and platforms will provide confidence in the results and technologies implemented.

Phase 3 (October 2014 to October 2016) will focus in on the microbes identified in Phase 2, with an emphasis on microbes that have not been extensively researched previously and that are thought to be of pathological significance in salmon. A portion of the samples collected for molecular surveillance will also undergo histopathological analysis and the audit samples in the library will be used for both molecular analysis and histopathology. The team will use high-grade samples that contain significant numbers of specific microbes and conduct laboratory studies of pathogenicity to provide further understanding of disease processes and dynamics in wild fish. This Phase will begin towards the end of Phase 2 to expedite information needs on microbes that are newly discovered in BC salmon.

Phase 4 (October 2016 to October 2017) will include reporting of research and presentations to management agencies on the potential utility of methods developed and the application of outcomes to future monitoring. The culmination of the project will likely be in 2017 when data has been compiled and research outcomes are clear.

Key stakeholders and management agencies will be invited to participate in a consultation panel to meet twice annually. Their role will be to help determine the kinds of information on possible disease agents that are important for them and other end-users, to assist in the development of a strategy to effectively communicate research outcomes and to identify appropriate outcomes that may be applied to management of wild and cultured salmon resources.

(http://www.fishfarmi...rticle_id=98348)


Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#50 Brian M

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:39 PM

Anyone catch that guy from Snow Island on news 95.7 this afternoon?

He was pretty upset about not being allowed to destroy Shoal Bay.
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#51 Terran

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 06:46 AM

Brian M,

Not sure if this is the actual recording you are referring too, but it is certainly worth listening too. This is a link to the News 95.7 interview from March 15, 2013 with Senator Tom MacInnis about the Snow Island site rejection.


http://www.news957.c...march-15-930am/

Well worth a listen.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#52 Terran

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:08 AM

"The Aquaculture Champs take a left and a right...they're feeling this one...they seem to be staggering...could it be folks...could it be...could the Aquaculture Champs be hurt?...Could we be looking at the end of a dynasty???..." :lol: :lol: :lol: "It's one helluva fight folks, but the Champs seem to be showing a ch ink in their armour!!!"

(Best Howard Cosell voice in my head that I've heard in a while)
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#53 pmorris

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:11 AM

Brian M,

Not sure if this is the actual recording you are referring too, but it is certainly worth listening too. This is a link to the News 95.7 interview from March 15, 2013 with Senator Tom MacInnis about the Snow Island site rejection.


http://www.news957.c...march-15-930am/

Well worth a listen.

Terran


Great link. Senator McInnis certainly made some well-reasoned arguments. But I think Brian M was probably referring to the 4:00 p.m. show (http://www.news957.c...of-outrage-6-3/), but I can't get that link to work.

Paul
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#54 Terran

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:19 AM

Paul,

Yeah, I can't get that one to work either. I tried Downloading the File to MP3 and it came up a 404 page error (Page not Found). Unfortunate, I'd have enjoyed listening to the (pissing and moaning) of an aquaculture company that didn't get it's way in this Province. I'll keep trying.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#55 Shimanoman

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:37 AM

Well, God love Tom Macinnis!! Finally, this issue is gaining some traction!! For those out there who have no use for the Senate and some of its members (Patrick Brazeau ,Mike Duffy et al, WhomI agree, ought to be sent home in their underwear) This is exactly what the office is set up for!!! A court of sober second thought. Despite the current and previous support of the feds and provincial governments, the good offices of Mr Macinnis and his brother senators may actually be the vehicle through which the juggernaut of commercial aquaculture may be slowed and finally be brought to heel in this country!!! GO GET 'EM, TOM.

Regards.....
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#56 Terran

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:08 AM

I posted this video in another topic, but felt it needed to be here as well.

Cooke Aquaculture Feedlot, St. Mary's Bay - February 21, 2013




Obviously, this site has been placed in water too shallow to allow for bad weather. Wonder who approved this sites placement? Would be interesting to know how many fish may have "flown the crappers"? Not to mention that this is the site that recently was tested for fish disease.

Check out ASF-Salmon News:http://asf.ca/salmon-news.html for this and other interesting stories.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#57 Terran

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:30 PM

Snow Island Inc/Loch Duart have been moaning since the rejection of their salmon farm proposal by Ottawa and the NSDFA. Now in this article they ask, "So the question is, is there a future for aquaculture in this province?”

The article was found in the Aquaculture Directory.

Nova Scotia's ability to host aquaculture operations questioned - http://aquaculturedi...ons-questioned/

Reading the article, one gets the impression of a spoiled child having been refused something for the first time.

Watch for the coming tantrum.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#58 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:41 AM

Terran I am not sure how you find a lot of this stuff but I have to tell you that I am glad you do. I will send you someones email address so you can connect and try to get something organized.

Now as for this latest article... To many it is obvious what people want and what the salmon companies should do, but apparently the blinders are on these companies and they are missing a great opportunity to be the leading supplier and garner public support and ride the positive wave of publicity all the way to the bank.. Bring these opperations on land and manage your product. Sell and supply a safe non-altered food source that Canadians as a whole can enjoy. Be a leader and an innovator.. I am sure that the Government would pour money into one of these large opperations if it was brought onto land... the extra jobs, the value added products (in regards to effluent) the environmental factor, the conservation of the wild species, the reduced risk of disease spread etc... I am sure that the cost is what is stopping most of these... business is designed so that the best thing to do isn't always done because it costs more and no one wants to be the only one doing the responsible thing apparently.. why would one company pay so much more than the next to produce a product that is going to sell for the same price. The government needs to pull all of these sites from the ocean, give some startup money to these companies to place them on land and be sustainable. Raise the price in the stores (which I would pay for if raised in this way) and let everyone know why this is being done.. you should hear a great Horray from all across Canada as our Government decidedly does something good and proactive for a change. Good decisions get attention and this one would be an attention getter.

don`t just make this an East or West Coast thing.. make is all across the country.. I bet if this was done that you would see an increase in salmon populations returning to the rivers in as little as 2 years..Rivers that have not seen a run or much of one will soon have numbers returning.. closed rivers could be re-opened (of course all of this later part is speculation but it is possible)
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#59 Terran

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:41 AM

Exstreamfisherman,

It has always been my assertion that Government has failed to set the tone for these industries. Instead of proactively legislating the direction that industry should be heading, they simply allow things to "occur" and then spend far to many tax dollars defending poorly thought out decisions or trying to "fix" their mistakes - after the damage has begun.

The fact is that these are our resources. They belong to the people of our country and these resources are abundant.

Why is it that our government has convinced our citizens that we have to reliquish our control over our resources in order to allow industry (often foreign) to take, what is ours, in any fashion they choose? Why are we not creating innovative legislation that allows for the development of these industries while setting a priority on preserving the environment? Why are we not insisting on research and development of innovative new techniques that limit the environmental impact?

These companies want what we have; why shouldn't we be able to dictate how it is taken and the conditions by which this occurs?

Your post above, regarding closed containment, is absolutely correct. As you state, "To many it is obvious what people want and what the salmon companies should do, but apparently the blinders are on these companies and they are missing a great opportunity to be the leading supplier and garner public support and ride the positive wave of publicity all the way to the bank."

My question would be this, "Should we be blaming the aquaculture companies or our own Government?"

The Aquaculture companies are doing what they have been doing for decades. They exploit coastal waters, destroying habitat, poisoning resouces and creating situations where parasites and disease run rampant. They use up a site and move to the next. All the while producing an inferior product as cheaply as possible.

They have been doing it across the Globe. Norway, Chile, Scotland, Ireland...now they are on our shores. Yet, despite all of the "history" and material science, experiences of other countries, etc.; OUR government decides to jump on the bandwagon - ALL IN. Had there been any due diligence done by our political "hired help", it would have been obvious that this industry needed to be heavily scrutinized and proper legislative precautions put in place to protect (again) what is ours.

We have Government Departments (both Federal and Provincial) that are PAID, from our tax dollars, to do just this. DFO, for example, is in a conflict of interest, so obvious, that it borders on criminal. How is it that the Federal Department mandated to protect our oceans and coastal waters (and their species) of this country be at the forefront of promoting an industry that it clearly should have jurisdiction over and be policing???

It is, however, encouraging that despite being ignored and let down, by our own government, people have taken it upon themselves to fight the stupidity of their elected officials. A prime example of what can be accomplished when enough people stand up to the stupidity.

This "Salmon War" is certainly not over, but it is starting to show some headway. Informed people are choosing to protest in many different fashions on both coasts. Our elected officials appear to be starting to take notice (or feel the heat).

The even more effective outcome seems to be at the market level, where people, by choosing not to purchase this "product", are beginning to dictate the direction this industry will have to eventually take. Sadly, this could have been directed by effective governance and have saved a lot of money, disease and pollution.

The "smart" aquaculture executive should be starting to see the writing on the wall.

It appears that the market is taking notice as well. Here is a story from SeafoodSource.com, titled, "Canada wants closed containment aquaculture" - http://www.seafoodso...l.aspx?id=19966

A quote from the article is very heartening,

For example, the Langley, British Columbia-based Overwaitea Food Group told the Committee that they are reducing the amount of net pen-reared salmon sold in their stores and are filling the gap with as much closed containment salmon as is available. “According to Overwaitea’s experiences selling closed-containment coho salmon, there is a high customer demand for this product,” the Committee wrote in the report.

Other companies are taking this direction, as well.

Hopefully, this is the beginning of new direction that all retailers will eventually adopt.

Government could have dictated and supported sustainable aquaculture. Government could have invested in research and development into sustainable innovations. Government could impose strict laws on the useage of our resouces and enforce stricter remediation remedies when they are abused. THEY CHOOSE NOT TOO.

Aquaculture companies will head in the direction that their market dictates. They'll follow the money.

It's about time somebody grabbed them by the nose and gave them some direction.

Terran

(Sorry if it got a little verbose.)
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#60 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:01 AM

Verbose is good.. be as wordy as you like brother.. I think we have to blame both sides of the coin for this mess.. both the Aquaculture industry and our Government for approving and continuing to let it happen. As was stated in another of the posted links you put up.. our Government officials that make the calls are not experienced when they take office, are not given or don`t take the initiative to understand the big picture or how to get it under control.. They fail before they even start. I hate to think that as a race we are so ignorant to the environment and the facts that what is happening is being missed by those who make the decissions. How can they not see a clear path... are they blinded by those whispering in their ear or the money being dangled in front of them.

I agree, as a country we should be able to dictate as strict a policy as we need to ensure the safety of our food products, our environment and our wild species... this also goes the same for all of our other resources which we (for the most part give away) our water, trees etc... it isn`t like these companies will go elsewhere... it will just cost them more and in doing so they will effectively get paid more for the end result because they have taken the road less traveled and people will recognize this and reward it...

If only I had the money.. I know it is a broken record from me, but I know I could do this I just don`t have the capital to get it going.. but it would be the best product on the market bar none. And it would be funded by our government to ensure that end result. I want to go back to the days when I had faith in our government because they made sound, stable decisions. I want to be able to take a stand and say our standards are higher than anywhere else in the world and our product shows that.. I have worked in processing for many years and have worked with the CFIA side by side in testing and sampling and at one time I was impressed with the protocols and steps that they took to ensure food safety... not so much any more... Oh the good ol days...
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