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Rediculous Amount Of Salmon Being Taken


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#41 StripperGuide

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:50 PM

I had absolutely no intentions on disrespecting you or "you're people" . ( I'm part white too !! ) , I am very sorry that you took my words out of context, and I am now feeling that you more may be looking for an argument than getting educated on native rights. I was relating to the approach by those who are racist and label anyone ,in my earlier post.
I think that that you maybe have a different agenda on your mind than just looking for answers. And I wish you the best !!
I don't believe that I will be assisting you in you're quest any more .

Have a great fishing season StripperGuide !! All the best to you !!

Not looking for a fight FnF , just that we get the same answers from your people(Native side)who are on the rivers . I am a director on a salmon association and we have a native at our table . He speaks the same about anyone who goes out and kills salmon ,even thou that it is their rights . He is a awesome gentlemen and is giving back to resource and not killing it . Most of us do know the rules ,but as you stated earlier its our(gov't) rules , not yours. You may have been the native I see popping up on the Wallace with your boys and myself and many other anglers will just pick up and walk away , because we no longer want to watch the slaughter of a species that your group claims to love so much . We have a video of the natives in Cape Breton jumping on and destroying hen salmon . If you would like a copy feel free to in box me your email address and see from our eyes . Good luck on your season and hope to see you some day on a river and let a salmon return back to the water so she can spawn again ,for my girls , and your boys future.
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#42 fishnfellas

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:03 PM

Not looking for a fight FnF , just that we get the same answers from your people(Native side)who are on the rivers . I am a director on a salmon association and we have a native at our table . He speaks the same about anyone who goes out and kills salmon ,even thou that it is their rights . He is a awesome gentlemen and is giving back to resource and not killing it . Most of us do know the rules ,but as you stated earlier its our(gov't) rules , not yours. You may have been the native I see popping up on the Wallace with your boys and myself and many other anglers will just pick up and walk away , because we no longer want to watch the slaughter of a species that your group claims to love so much . We have a video of the natives in Cape Breton jumping on and destroying hen salmon . If you would like a copy feel free to in box me your email address and see from our eyes . Good luck on your season and hope to see you some day on a river and let a salmon return back to the water so she can spawn again ,for my girls , and your boys future.


I've never fished salmon in NS. And don't live or travel anywhere near Wallace. I don't live on a reserve and do not follow their guidelines. I belong to the NCNS native council of NS, and I receive salmon tags. We have seasons, just like you, catch limit, angling rules and follow the provincial regulations , if not more. Salmon tags, I've never used one in the eight years that I've been with them. I get out once and awhile with my family and enjoy the outdoors and would never over catch, pollute, destroy any habitat or overfish.
I too am always disgusted with any groups damaging the tradition enjoyed by all. I just can't stand it when we are all referred to being the same as the others who do not follow guidelines , and harm our resources. Especially if my family shows up at a fishing hole and some may pack up and leave.
My family and I as well are great people, and we take care of the earth . This past Sunday we organized the cleanup of the shubie river in Elmsdale and had a great turnout and removed exactly one tonne of garbage from the riverbank and entrance. Some of us natives aren't all bad , and as well goes for other groups. I don't believe ever seeing any native lookn people there, each time we have fished it.
And it doesn't matter , we have never labeled any one group to be responsible for the mess, we just took care of it the best we we could, and moved on. We did this because of the harm to the habitats,the eye sore, and the unwelcoming view we had while wanting to fish. and no one else seemed to be too concerned as they litter when they visit.

My initial interest in this topic was the remarks about seeing natives haulin out fish.
I was simply curious as to how did the guy know that they were native. And now we are here.
This thread has come along away and am astonished by the number of viewers, and participants. But the most important thing here that I have been trying to stress is.... Simply, do your homework before you make particular comments and don't be racist about it.
I'm not saying that the native/salmon problem doesn't exist, I know it exists !! And I am totally against anyone overfishing and misusing their rights in anyway. I don't know their limits or seasons because I don't live on a reserve. But I do know some members probably abuse it terribly and so do non natives. I don't see a difference, other than their cultures. I wish I can stop all of the abuse to our resources. Maybe I will start visiting the reserves and the non native hangouts and ask them to stop , and make it all more visible than it has been. A good starting point , could maybe visit the chiefs and councils and find out why they are getting away with it, and also the DNR to see how this is happening under the noses of us all by all groups abusing fishing and hunting. I'll let you know how I make out .

Congratulations to you, your native buddy on the board, and everyone else involved, for all of you're endeavours, in whichever way it is ,that you all do at the board. I am probably going fishing tomorrow for trout somewhere that is legal, probably dirty...but I'll do my best to fix that.
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#43 StripperGuide

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:06 PM

Good job on the clean and taking a different approach towards the conservation side of things. One of the better ways to open ears and eyes are in the youth . If you convert one child , you did your part .I find that you cant teach a old dog new tricks. Kind of sad really. But our biggest battle is the open pens . That is what is killing our stocks .
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#44 jmart

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

I am late to this party and i would like to respond about education amongst aboriginal peoples and non aboriginal peoples alike. I currently am the Native Council of Nova Scotia Prefect, for the N.C.N.S. Netukulimkewe’l Commission, which is the Natural Life Management Authority for the Large Community of Mi’kmaq /Aboriginal Peoples who continue to reside on Traditional Mi’Kmaq Territory in Nova Scotia undisplaced to Indian Act Reserves. Alright intro over.. if anyone would like to chat futher about learning more about aboriginal rights I am more then willing to chat and help out. PM me and I will inbox you my #.

Education is always the biggest and most important aspect in protecting our mother earth period. I continue every day to educate and inform not only non aboriginal people but more importantly my aboriginal brothers/sisters on our responsibility’s as people of this land.

IE: here is a hot topic from my facebook on some of the basic CHOICES we as aboriginal people need to make.

“A little RANT today......To all my L'nu brothers out there on the river banks harvesting spring salmon, just remember our responsibility to mother earth and our future generations, tagging your catch or only taking mutli sea winter males or slinkers is not impeding on our rights or bowing down to the man. We talk a big game about self-governance and responsibility to our future generations but we do not practice or promote harvest management of our traditional food sources ???? WTF? This allows us to ensure future generations are able to continue to enjoy and access our traditional food fisheries?? WHY ISNT THIS "RIGHT"??? Just because we "can" does not mean we should. Take care of our stocks and release those female salmon and smolts. Put a tag on your catch or at least report to your local offices what and how many you caught to allow a proper representation of the stock when people involved with managing the continuation and care of the species can make accurate and informed decisions. If you do not know ask local leaders. Wela'lin”

I took some backlash mostly from my aboriginal peers on “agreements signed” and DFOs stance on our rights. I continued…

“we as a peoples should not need an agreement with DFO to enforce responsible management of OUR traditional foods and how WE manage our lands. And a tagging or reporting system WILL work if WE ENFORCE OUR OWN PEOPLES, if my band leaders and elders ASK/TELL me how i should fish and hunt i am going to listen and so will the generations after me. My organization (NCNS) has been managing its harvest for since 1990 with great success, it creates jobs within the community and empowers our own peoples. It gives us a stronger and more respected position when dealing with government/dfo and the rest of the Canadians across this country. Remember we as a peoples want self governance but if we cannot establish and maintain basic practices of management within our own communities how can we? Their future starts with us.”

Our organization has a 10 tag limit on salmon with heavy restrictions on location, size, sex and type of salmon harvested, and we enforce these regulations internally (harvesting suspensions, and sometime fines) with great results. Every month our 450+ harvesters are responsible to report all landings and catches. I personally am responcable for communcating with DFO/DNR and reporting on our communitys harvest. I am unaware of any First Nations Band YET to adopt similar practices, and i have spoken with a few of them to try and help this process become a regular practise. I am a band member but i CHOOSE to harvest through the NCNS, not only because i am employed by them but because i believe in their position on harvesting not only fish but wildlife as well.

With that said I would like to reassure members of this forum and public that there are people within our aboriginal community’s fighting for responsible management of this incredible food/sport fish species.

I will post up some pics from my spring salmon fishing for some viewing enjoyment.

Wela'lin (thank you)
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#45 fishnfellas

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:41 PM

Please also review this Topic Jmart !

Enfield Bridge Striped Bass Harvest
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#46 basindawg

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:04 AM

Jmart, thanks for your informative post, much appreciated. Not only your people who need education and leadership in terms of conservation and responsible harvesting of wild resources tho. Just sayin.
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#47 4fitzs

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:39 AM

I will post up some pics from my spring salmon fishing for some viewing enjoyment. Wela'lin (thank you)


I saw the Pics, which have been taken off the site, They did not bring any enjoyment to me,,I have caught quiet a few salmon in the past 20 years and only Tagged 1 (injured), Not everyone has the same thoughts about fishing. JMHO
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#48 jmart

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 11:25 AM

Thanks Bassdawg, and i agree, education is needed on both sides of the fence. and it should start now... we have unrestricted access to information these days with the internet, it is our duty to educate the generations after us, not pass on discrimatory and uneducated views on others.... that leads to my next topic...hi 4fitzs i just got your private message.. and have seen that I have been "reported" and my pictures have been removed, SO with that said i would now like a public explantion FROM THE MODERATORS on what i actually did to deserve this disrespect, other then using this forum for what is it to share and inform other people who share the same passion. were the pictures disrespectful? or did they just upset some of you? and why were you upset with them? im a big guy i can take the heat
If you would like the story of my one salmon fishing day/per year i have no problem tellin you all...i only kept one male that day for my grandmother, she loves salmon and is unable to harvest since my grandfather passed in 2010. i caught and released 9 others unharmed and healthy. My wife isnt a big fish eater so i did not need to keep anymore, with that said I used a tag and reported my catch to DFO to insure proper repersentation of the species as you did 4fitzs.

Dear moderator, please respond and follow up on this convo and the other "hot" topic that is flying off the handle because of simular uneducated attitudes/posts that you seem to be supporting.... should i report all posts that have discriminatory undertones??? if i do will you remove them to? or is it better to allow people like myself to educate and inform members of this forum. but you should not at anytime support discrimatory positions.

If at any time you feel like i am outa place with my posts or pictures please msg me...i have no problem removing them or apoligizing. but im am unsure what i did wrong in this instence, and im not sure what your position is on this subject because you did not let me know.

thanks
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#49 csft

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 02:20 PM

jmart ... your answer can be found here ... http://novascotiafis...7-pics-of-fish/

i think when you register on the site there is a little blurb about it as well
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#50 jmart

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:29 PM

thanks csft, i was digging for info...
so because i had a pic of a salmon layin down its presumed dead? i understand their position on dead/harvested fish but why were all my photos removed? the lure was still in its mouth? every try and take a photo of a 30" fish by yourself?

Is its because its related to harvesting one? is there not any photos of fish on here that people take home and eat? are they taking down? or is it just because my season is different?
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#51 jmart

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:30 PM

"all we ask is that you take a photo of legal fish prior to it being killed if you are harvesting it."
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#52 basindawg

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:43 PM

thanks csft, i was digging for info...
so because i had a pic of a salmon layin down its presumed dead? i understand their position on dead/harvested fish but why were all my photos removed? the lure was still in its mouth? every try and take a photo of a 30" fish by yourself?

Is its because its related to harvesting one? is there not any photos of fish on here that people take home and eat? are they taking down? or is it just because my season is different?


Just ask , respectfully.
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#53 StripperGuide

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 05:01 PM

"all we ask is that you take a photo of legal fish prior to it being killed if you are harvesting it."

We are trying to teach our children how to properly take a picture of a releasable fish . Take a pick of the fish in the water in your hand , if it gets a away , oh well you were releasing it anyways . With the fish laying on the ice will freeze its eye and blind the fish on that eye . Here is a good link to follow proper procedures . http://www.uky.edu/~.../flyfish/cr.htm
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#54 basindawg

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

yup, might a been a mite too quick to offer my respects. this whole thing is goin south again fastern Dexters election promises.
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#55 jmart

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:49 PM

no worries i always respect and appreciate new information...i had no idea that a fish on the bank might injury it, i was more upset with the lack of info from the mods about them takin down my pics, only after another member was upset, i agree with fish handling responsibilities, but its frustrating that unless the fish in the picture is harvested in a certain way outlined in non aboriginal guidelines it is not allowed on this site...daves site his rules... ill respect that and will stay away from the salmon pictures because my fishing methods dont gel with the members on here. sorry if anyone was upset but at no time was i disrespecting this species.
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#56 salmonfreak

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 10:32 PM

jmart I want to say thanks for contributing to these forums. I hope you stay around to educate us at least give us a different perspective. You are kind of in the lions den of non-natives so hopefully we do not scare you off with comments or picture policies etc. I agree that we have to communicate more we will still disagree probably but I'd also be interested in our common ground. I hope you don't feel ganged up on.

Your comments to fellow natives was brave to say but you make some good points! They wouldn't go over well if said by a non-native but with you saying it maybe the audience will reflect on what you are saying. I have all kinds of questions but I'll ask a couple now.

You say that you take only what you need and respect conservation. This all sounds good on paper but what do you base your perception of conservation on? Most anglers and commercial guys think they have a feeling on the fishes population but the average non-native can't just go out and harvest whatever they feel is appropriate. Thats just chaos without any scientific basis. People often carry a bias to see the world as they believe it so they can justify their actions in their own minds based on their own representative heuristics they call it. As someone with a science background I am very skeptical of the average angler actually doing what's right for the fish even though they often feel they are doing what's right. Most do not know the science or if it even exits. People think they can follow the rules of DFO and everything will be fine and that's often a myth IMO once you dig deeper into issues. Why should we feel comfortable or believe that the native harvestors are out there harvesting responsibly based on their feelings?

Why not voluntarily follow the rules non-natives follow? We all know DFO's track record of managing fisheries even if we follow their rules often its bad news. I have said before DFO does not manage species they manage rates of extinction. So I find it hard to understand why any conservation minded angler would go out and harvest more then what dfo permits non-natives and feel good at the end of the day.

Do you think having rights makes aboriginal people feel more superior to non-natives? Sometimes I feel insignificant, helpless, and un worthy when first nations net salmon rivers for example. Sometimes when fishing I felt like some natives who came to the pools were there just to show they can do things non-natives can't and rub it in our faces. Not always like this but happened a couple times. I probably sound corny as a guy talking about feelings and worse talking about feelings online. There is also probably an irony here as I'm sure many aboriginals feel that inferiority when they encounter the non-native world.
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#57 fishnfellas

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:23 AM

I do not believe that it has been a show of showing that we can do what we want when we want and rub it in your faces at all .
I think that naturally, there has always been a feeling of , (why can the natives do it, and we can't ) perception here. And this has always been the root cause of anger, jealousy and inferiority by some who don't understand our traditional right , also by those who don't care to know or understand.
But in saying this, I too would be furious to see an act of neglect and annihilation to our resources, until I understood what either was really taking place at the time, ie; is this person really doing something wrong here, or are they traditionally harvesting in an actual meaningful way to give back to their community. And most certainly, if something wrong is being practiced here, then it should not go unnoticed and taken care of by the proper authorities.
In the coming months I am trying to gather information from the local bands, native groups and all involved in our resources to properly educate anyone who would be interested in finding out any relevant information that they or anyone group may be lacking.
Also, to try to assist all interested groups in being more aware of any misuse of rights, lack of knowledge and judgement, and present to them any information of those that may be harming a habitat in any way.
Any one of us can sit here and rant about many of these issues forever, or we can try our hardest to actually make a change or at least show some sort of awareness. Because this obviously has not been getting done for years now either at the Government level, the communities or the many many organizations that claim to be part of an existing conservation authority with their chairmanship, their boards and fancy assemblies and dinners.
Many times , all that it takes is a small group of people with a strong passion to overcome any huge obstacles.
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#58 mattd

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:27 AM

Great post FF.

I think some of the concerns around the Salmon Fishery is the lack of shared info regarding tag limits and harvest numbers for the Aboriginal Bands. If this info was made available to all stakeholders of the Atlantic Salmon then I am sure it would help provide more insight and axe all of the assumptions.

Questions I have often heard asked but go unanswered are:

· How many Salmon are required for Ceremonial purposes?
· How many are required for Food consumption?
· How many are required for a source of income?

I recently overheard a conversation between Native band representatives that each band is allotted tags by DFO and these bands appoint harvesters to fill these tags. However, they said that the reporting and use of tags is not consistent between regions and bands. Would this not make it hard to determine the health of the stock?

Today DFO reports the numbers of Atlantic Salmon based on license report cards, pool counts, fry/parr counts and other scientific studies they have performed. However, when the numbers are presented it does not include the aboriginal fishery numbers. Why is this?

If all of the data on Atlantic Salmon was available to the invested parties; then that would be a huge step towards everyone working together for a Species important to us all.
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#59 Tyrel2002

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:35 AM

I am of native blood and I think that having special rights to hunt/fish is foolish. I follow the same regs as everyone else. The part that I do not like nor understand is the "traditional right". What is traditional about using a high powered rifle or a factory made fishing net?? I understand how things used to be and how important it once was to catch food when it was there, and in large numbers if possible; but it was done in a taditional way. i do not feel that someone of native blood should require a license to hunt (but yes we all need firearm training), that should be free, but we should all follow abide by the same regulations. These regulations aren't there to solo out any one group, they are there to protect our fish and wildlife. So unless someone can prove that they are truly harvesting in a traditional way, using traditional methods and the really need what they are harvesting (need not want) they should have the same rules as everyone else.

Like many from the maritimes I too had to go to alberta once to work. While there my friend and i fished every sunday. One sunday we were fishing a lake for lake whitefish, a delisious fish! On this lake we were only allowed ONE fish, it had to be over one size and under another. Using a single bardless hook. reason being that these fish had low numbers in recent years. It was a bitter cold day but were were still happy enough. Then after fishing for hours we see two guys walking towards us pulling a sled. I was cold so I figured Id walk up to them to get warmed up and at the same time greet my fellow fisher people. When I got to them I realized it was two native guys pulling a sled with a large net. They told me that they net the lake to catch whitefish for dogfood....they caught hundreds in one haul! the very large pike were tossed on the ice for the crows....Yes, I talked to the DFO, it was allowed.

How does this make sense in the eyes of conservation?? The numbers can only stand me taking one yet someone else can set a net...

As well, why should natives have special rights regarding introduced animals?...that one really baffles me..

That being said, there are native groups that still do hunt and harvest in a traditional manner and they really depend on what they catch, but they are very few.

I will say again, its time we start focusing more on conservation and less on who deserves what.

As I already said I am of native decent and I am in no way bashing natives, I am simply saying that the laws and regulations currently in place make no sense to me with regard to conservation.

I dont care what race you are, what group you belong to. We are all humans and as humans we must start thinking less of ourselves and more about the earth and the animals we are destroying.

I cant strees this enough, I mean NO disrespect to anyone.
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#60 rpen

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 08:39 AM

jmart, thanks for taking the time to explain the native side of the story! I understand that natives have the right to harvest species for cerimonial and subsitance purposes. I understand that natives feel they are the guardians of mother earth. I understand that protection of tradition, heritage and culture are some of the biggest issues for natives today.

Here is what I don't understand and I don't understand plenty:

Why when it comes to harvesting species are natives not practising tradional methods of harvest with traditional tools? Wouldn't this be more in the spirit of native movements by protecting and passing down these heritage methods?
Why aren't natives using proven conservation methods such as trap nets all the time to harvest salmon instead of hooking them with non selective methods such as treble hooks to protect the species?
I don't understand why a culture that promotes itself as "guardians of mother earth" would not be more involved in guarding their traditions from being destroyed by sea based aquaculture companies.
I don't understand bands not being more involved in river restoration work. Why aren't bands more involved in acid mitigation projects to restore once productive rivers to their natural state?
I don't understand why bands are against catch and release by fishers who are truely the workhorses and guardians of the fishing resource

I could go on and on but I think you are seeing some of my concerns. Again thank you for taking the time to help us understand!
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