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Rediculous Amount Of Salmon Being Taken


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#21 fishnfellas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

Perry, I usually enjoy learning on here about the fishing tradition from many of the well respected members !! But both when I see ignorant comments on here, and while I am out in the field, I get very frustrated.
Many people should do the research on the legalities of enjoying the outdoors, references to the Indian act, and simple human communication before pretending to know it all and simply being rude and ignorant.

Salmonfreak should hold an old school town hall meeting to bring everyone together on understanding the Indian act, and how it relates
To fish and wildlife. He seems to know it all too !!
I would never post an ignorant comment towards any race or culture anywhere, I would do some work of research towards finding answers. Not the lazy ignorant way of childish name calling and bullying we did back when we were kids.

I'm done now with this, and will enjoy learning more ,from the great outdoorsman on here !!

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#22 Perry

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:14 PM

Thank you and share your knowledge of our shared respect of natural resources.
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Just because you fish a lot doen't mean you are great or even good. It just means you fish a lot!!


#23 Stradicman

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:48 PM

Until the rules for native fishing are put in the NovaScotia Anglers Handbook I or we have absolutely no way of knowing what is legal and illegal.
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#24 Terran

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:21 AM

Friends,

I've been following this thread for a while. All I have to say is this:

There are bad apples in every barrel. Those who take advantage of "whatever" circumstance that gives them the opportunity. This shouldn't reflect on a group as a whole. This is usually a minority of any group and shouldn't be assumed to be the accepted "norm". Nor should any particular group be singled out. Poachers are from everywhere.

There are far more areas of common interest amongst those who are interested in preserving our resources. The fact is that colaboration and better dialogue could serve to better circumstances for all.

Not to mention the Government loves to see groups at each other; instead of working together...against them.

Just a thought.

Terran
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#25 fishnfellas

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

Now that has to be the most knowledgable , unbiased approach to these issues that I have ever heard on here or anywhere !!
Too bad many other people can't open up their minds and see things a lot more clearer,
CHEERS !!
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#26 nsvalley

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 08:04 PM

Fisher people I’ve followed this thread with great interest. I will agree with some of the contributors on both sides of the issue. Generally the bulk of fly fishers provincially, inter-provincially and internationally are sportsmen interested in the thrill of a awesome sights, the simple rise and good companions. Happily salmon fishing has morphed over the years. It has gone from kill everything you can get your hook into, too, let it live to breed another day mentality. The first and every other time I’ve done the “cost per pound” math it's proven to be far cheaper to eat store bought or devour photographs. Sadly though there is still evidence that the “Machismo Male” is still alive and flourishing in some areas around our salmon rivers. Their time will come.
I've been fortunate over the years to fish many fine rivers in this great country of ours and I still come home to the fish I love. Each year, come late fall I run into many fisherman having a flick. Conversation inevitably gets around to the “the state of mind of our fishers” towards this stock they profess to protect. 20 years ago I took pride that on the last day of the season I could show these other conservationists the nine tags I had left. You can imagine the jokes and pokes that went with that declaration. Yes nine tags... I killed a fish... and at $71.00 (cost to me) a lb my kids, my wife and I eat every morsel!!!! Now I turn the clock ahead 20 years, and I am in awe of the fact, that most people I speak to in those last few days, they, like I, proudly hold their fistful of tags... more often than not 4 not nine like the old days. Well I've often thought, these unused tags are a valuable media resource.
We're all aware each stakeholder screams to the sky on the high standards of conservations they themselves practice, while viewing all others with a jaundiced eye as they also lay claim the conservationists high ground. This would be some of the infighting that has been alluded to in previous posts. I for one have always felt when it comes to a race, the very nature of competition doesn't allow more than one winner. Fishermen we are not in a race against each other. The very term “stakeholder” implies that an individual or group have something to lose “collectively”, and that none wish to see happen. This term should supply enough common ground to work together. That is not to say the various stakeholders cannot initiate positive programs of their own. As I stated before [tags are a valuable media resource] I believe we can turn the sheer numbers of these un-used tags into a demonstration of the high regard every day fishermen and women hold this marvel of nature. Imagine the media hype and the public visual power of bags and bags of unused tags being turned in by the ASF, and representatives from every other interested stakeholder group.
I'd love to hear from others what they think of this idea, any pros and pitfalls are open to constructive debate.
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#27 girlfisher

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 08:28 PM

neat idea and thought provoking
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please practice a sustainable harvest

#28 StripperGuide

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:59 PM

Many people should do the research on the legalities of enjoying the outdoors, references to the Indian act,

How many salmon are you allowed to have each Year?Is there a certain amount your reserve is allowed to have?. Do you guys have a set season when you are allowed to fish or not to fish?I don't know and really would like to know. Is there a link for this act ?
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#29 Terran

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:44 AM

Thought I'd throw some links up to some "light" reading:


Indian Act (RSC 1985, c. I-5) - http://laws-lois.jus...a/eng/acts/I-5/

The Indian Act: Historical Overview - http://www.mapleleaf...orical-overview

Aboriginal Fishing Rights: Supreme Court Decisions - http://www.parl.gc.c...ons/bp428-e.htm

R. v Marshall / Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia..../R._v._Marshall
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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 


#30 basindawg

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:53 AM

Indian Act (RSC 1985, c. I-5) - http://laws-lois.jus...a/eng/acts/I-5/

The Indian Act: Historical Overview - http://www.mapleleaf...orical-overview

Geesh that's pretty heavy duty reading first thing sunday morning ! I wanna lawyer !
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#31 Perry

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

Back in the day....a collective yawn from a younger group of anglers Tom Humphries from NFLD came to a meeting with the Minister of DFO . I dont remember the reason for the meeting they all blurr together but what I do remember Tom wanted regulation changes and to make your exact point nsvalley he brought a huge daisy chain of unused salmon tags. He got the attention he wanted and the changes. Tom and myself have been the best of friends since. The point I guess is have a purpose to get attention and this would work again. I like the idea. I send my tags in for a draw a couple years. Maybe that should get bigger and the unused tags form a daisy chain to give to DFO to make the point you are trying to make......media in attendence!
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Just because you fish a lot doen't mean you are great or even good. It just means you fish a lot!!


#32 Shimanoman

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:36 AM

Perry,
I agree. I also believe that one of the mandatory qualifications that ANY Fisheries Minister, be they Federal, or Provincial,
is that they have a provable history as a life long angler. Being an ex commercial fisherman, or open sea cage aquaculturist would be a detriment (or a bar) to holding that office. Just a thought....

Regards....
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Life is too short, to take too much, too seriously, for too long ....Vernon P.Fraser

#33 fishnfellas

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

How many salmon are you allowed to have each Year?Is there a certain amount your reserve is allowed to have?. Do you guys have a set season when you are allowed to fish or not to fish?I don't know and really would like to know. Is there a link for this act ?




Did you get your answers StripperGuide , from the links above ? I'm not sure if it said anything about number of salmon allowed, seasons or reserve quotas !! It's not our rules, it's your governments rules. They made them. Maybe call you're MLA, I guess !!

I think if someone really takes the time to educate themselves on these issues and how they came about, they may not be so blind, judgemental, Scared, jealous and hateful. There are some people who hunt/fish for sustenance, and then there are those who assist greatly in the killing of our natural habitats and ways of life. It is pretty easy to find a lot of info. On the Internet, at the library, or visit a member for a coffee sometime.
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#34 StripperGuide

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:06 PM

Did you get your answers StripperGuide , from the links above ? I'm not sure if it said anything about number of salmon allowed, seasons or reserve quotas !! It's not our rules, it's your governments rules . They made them. Maybe call you're MLA, I guess !!
I think if someone really takes the time to educate themselves on these issues and how they came about, they may not be so blind, judgemental, Scared, jealous and hateful. There are some people who hunt/fish for sustenance, and then there are those who assist greatly in the killing of our natural habitats and ways of life. It is pretty easy to find a lot of info. On the Internet, at the library, or visit a member for a coffee sometime.

That answered my question thank you.Now......Do you have a picture of these un educated,blind,scared,jealous,hateful people you are talking about? .If not I do not appreciate your racial remarks to my people . Try to treat people with respect before you label them .
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#35 fishnfellas

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

That answered my question thank you.Now......Do you have a picture of these un educated,blind,scared,jealous,hateful people you are talking about? .If not I do not appreciate your racial remarks to my people . Try to treat people with respect before you label them .


I had absolutely no intentions on disrespecting you or "you're people" . ( I'm part white too !! ) , I am very sorry that you took my words out of context, and I am now feeling that you more may be looking for an argument than getting educated on native rights. I was relating to the approach by those who are racist and label anyone ,in my earlier post.
I think that that you maybe have a different agenda on your mind than just looking for answers. And I wish you the best !!
I don't believe that I will be assisting you in you're quest any more .

Have a great fishing season StripperGuide !! All the best to you !!
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#36 Exstreamfisherman

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:02 PM

Without getting into an argument (I know this may not be possible but here goes) Aren't the rules that are laid out for Native harvest for ceremonial purposes etc, agreed upon by all parties involved, namely the Federal government and the Native Band councils. I don't know so I am not being ignorant I am just asking a question for clarification. You made that comment like it was something that we were able to change implying that these are our rules not yours.. you are part of Canada aren't you?

I made an assumption (which I probably shouldn't have done I guess) that any regulations or laws passed that include activities or participation by the Native Bands of Canada included them in that process. If you were not included then I think we as a whole should get these rules revisited so that all parties will be happy and we can dispense with any negativity. I know many people both native and non-native that are good people and likewise I know of some that would spoil it for the bunch.
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#37 fishnfellas

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:29 PM

Yes, I am Canadian , Never am I looking for an argument. I thought especially with what has been going on lately with the Indian Act, that maybe some people would make an effort to educate themselves to understand what has been going on. This is why I referred earlier that many people should do some homework before anyone speaks out ignorantly , meaning , speaking without knowing . I am truly sorry if I've unintentionally offended anyone by any of my remarks, but listening to some people's ignorance everyday gets frustrating and I never implied that it was all white people who think this way. I have many non-native friends and family, hehehe .
I challenge everyone to do some reading of the Indian act and everything involved with it, and I believe that there will be some understanding. Extreme fisherman,StripperGuide and any one else interested ; please find the time to do this.
I wish ,that back in school we all would have been taught the truth about Native History and that many of us all would have shown a greater interest into the topic.
Oh yeah, been out fishing a few times with my family and haven't caught a thing !! Good luck to you all !!
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#38 fishnfellas

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:44 PM

I made an assumption (which I probably shouldn't have done I guess) that any regulations or laws passed that include activities or participation by the Native Bands of Canada included them in that process. If you were not included then I think we as a whole should get these rules revisited so that all parties will be happy and we can dispense with any negativity. I know many people both native and non-native that are good people and likewise I know of some that would spoil it for the bunch.
EXSTREAMFISHERMAN;

This is exactly what idlenomore is all about !! Protecting the land, species and working together. But unfortunately, some media outlets and some people don't understand this. Hope I haven't offended you as we'll in any way. If you would like to go fishing together sometime , I would be honoured to join you and have a good chat !!


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#39 fishnfellas

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 03:27 PM

Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).[1] The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts. Ignoramus is commonly used in the US, the UK, and Ireland as a term for someone who is willfully ignorant.

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#40 salmonfreak

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:50 PM

First in light of being informed and not ignorant the Indian Act has nothing to do with native harvest allocations or treaty rights per se. The changes proposed to that act seem reasonable to me. The new act requires the Chief and council of the bands to be more financially accountable towards taxpayers and band members. The other major change is to allow an individual right or interest in band property. The intent is to allow members to use their home as potential equity for financing and provide an incentive to show greater respect to their residence that usually comes with a personal interest in it rathar then a collective interest.

DFO and probably the native bands do not want the general public to know the details of the Native fishing agreements. As 2013 salmon stewards we have asked multiple times however they will not even let us know the allocation and rules which bands and band members are supposed to follow. As a result of this secrecy there are many misconceptions as to what natives are allowed and not allowed to do. However because of 2 frivolous lawsuits launched, and soon after withdrawn, by a aboriginal organization DFO was forced to respond so all of the agreements and correspondence became a matter of public record through the courts.

With regards to salmon:

Bands are given a finite number tags for both MSW and 1SW salmon. All fresh salmon taken must be tagged. Those fishing must be designated as harvesters by the band. All catches must be reported to DFO. There are only certain rivers and seasons where individual bands can fish. Most can only fish until Nov. 15th. The tags are given to particular bands to be used only in particular rivers. With regards to slinks DFO has a season which starts late winter I believe and the limit is as necessary for food social and ceremonial purposes.

Many of these rules are not followed. Especially reporting the catches to DFO for science. In their reports DFO science often notes that they have no idea how many salmon are taken by first nations so this affects their population assessment models. I have yet to see a tag used by a first nations on a fresh salmon although I'm sure many band members do. I am particularly disturbed by the no limit on the slink harvest. DFO through their own research has observed a significant number of salmon spawning multiple times. In the past the proportion of repeat spawners was low under 10% so the conservation value of slinks was relatively low and therefore limitless harvest more justifiable. Now for some reason the are alot more repeat spawners so the slinks have much more conservation value. For some reason DFO has failed to address the new reality and still allows a limitless number of slinks to be harvested. Outrageous IMO!
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