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#161 StripperGuide

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:46 PM

Agreed, there seems to be so much complaining about "native rights" and how the fisheries are in bad shape because of Native's keeping too many fish, but I for one would be far more comfortable if our First Nations community were in charge of regulation and enforcement rather than our wonderfully inept DNO and DNR.



You are out to lunch ....they rape our resources , .... their way of life used to be that no one owns the land, game or waters....but some how they turned it around that they own it , and own everything , look up on aboriginal history of west coast natives , and east coast natives . The west coast natives will tell you how the east coast natives are .....they will sell.....mark my words...will sell out ....$$$$$$$$ to the gas company ....they don't care about the water ....or the fish.....if they do this will never fly.....but time will tell......and time is money , and this project will flow salt in our rivers and the the councils will take the money for the short term gain .....sad but it is the truth .


This project is set back 1 year as I was told tonight ......until they settle with the councils .....mark my words today this project will be flowing in a year....if I am wrong I will appoligize ....but I am right ......
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#162 Terran

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:37 AM

Guy's,

 

I'll take the year, for now.

 

Give's a little more time for the "science" to be reviewed and for others to take up the fight.

 

My concern is the river and the fish. Another year is another year they don't get to test their theory. Another year for the "science" to catch up to the insanity.

 

For that...I am thankful. We'll see where it all ends in a year.

 

Terran


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#163 Terran

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:10 AM

Take a look at this article in the Chronicle Herald:

 

Region’s gas scarce, Nova Scotia Power says - http://thechronicleh...otia-power-says

 

Based on what this article preports, one has to question the need for this storage project and any possible negative effects it may pose. If this is simply a facility to store gas being moved through the Province from elsewhere and destined for foreign markets, why should we potentially incur the negative impacts while an "outside" company profits at our expense?

 

Just not seeing the "risk to benefit" ratio paying out here.

 

Curious.

 

Terran


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#164 Terran

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 06:52 AM

So the Utility and Review Board has given Heritage Gas the "OK" to charge customers for storing gas at a facility that hasn't been approved or built yet?

 

It would seem that decisions are being made behind the scenes long before the Public is informed of the  decisions.

 

 

Heritage Gas gets green light for $14m Alton storage contract

JOANN ALBERSTAT BUSINESS EDITOR
Published June 4, 2015 - 3:24pm
Last Updated June 5, 2015 - 6:47am

http://thechronicleh...torage-contract

 

Heritage Gas Ltd. has gotten the provincial regulator’s blessing for its plan to use a proposed natural gas storage facility near Stewiacke starting in four years’ time.

 

The Utility and Review Board ruled Thursday that the Dartmouth company can put the cost of its $14-million storage contract into rates. The plan will add about $2 per gigajoule to customers’ bills during winter months, starting in late 2019.

 

The project is being built by a sister company, Alton Natural Storage LP. Both firms are owned by AltaGas Ltd.

 

The 20-year agreement between them says the facility will be operational by April 1, 2019.

 

Heritage president Chris Smith said he was pleased the board agreed with the company that gas storage, available in other parts of North America, will mean cost savings for customers and improve security of supply.

 

“We’re looking forward to the next stage in the process with regards to Alton,” Smith said in an interview. “Hopefully, they can work through their process with the province and First Nations.”

 

The Heritage president referred questions on the project’s status to Alton officials.

 

Alton president David Birkett couldn’t be reached Wednesday afternoon for comment.

 

Construction work at the storage site near Alton has been on hold this spring while a three-month review of scientific data is done. The study is being commissioned by the Mi’kmaq Rights Initiative.

 

The province issued a partial work stoppage in late October after the Mi’kmaq community complained it had not been properly consulted about how treaty and fishing rights would be affected.

 

The project includes drawing water from the Shubenacadie River estuary near Fort Ellis and pumping it 12 kilometres to a site in Alton. From there, the water is sent down drilled wells to flush out 1.3 million cubic metres of salt from underground beds to create storage caverns.

 

The $130-million first phase of the project would see three caverns built, all of which would be used by Heritage.

 

While the contract approved by the board starts in April 2019, Smith said an interim agreement could be negotiated if the facility were available sooner.

 

The storage deal had called for the service to be available by April 1, 2018. But Heritage needed board approval by March 31 for that to happen.

 

The company filed its application with the regulator in December.

 

The project would allow Heritage to buy gas and store it at times when the price is lower. The fuel would be delivered to customers during peak heating season, when prices are higher.

 

Gas users would only pay the additional charge from Nov. 1 to April 30 each year.

 

“When we withdraw (gas), and start to use it to serve our customers, that’s when the customers would actually pay for it,” the Heritage president said.

 

Consultants working for the gas distributor have pegged the potential savings for customers at $13 million to $17 million annually, depending on market prices. But some energy experts have also said the benefit could be as little as $1.7 million per year if seasonal price volatility in New England were to disappear.

 

Heritage has the franchise to distribute natural gas by pipeline in the province. The Dartmouth firm provides gas to over 20,000 households and businesses in Nova Scotia.

 

 

Maybe the Government is just getting it's "ducks in a row", but to me, it would seem more like putting the "cart before the horse.

 

How do you give approval, for anything, on a project that hasn't been approved itself? Seems a little overly optimistic.

 

Especially a project as contested and scrutinized as this one. OR... has the decision already been made and the masses (First Nations included) are simply being placated until interest is lost and they can go ahead?

 

The timeline doesn't even add up.

 

In an earlier decision (see earlier post) the First Nations were supposed to have gotten the project suspended for a year, for review. However, in the story above, it is stated,

"Construction work at the storage site near Alton has been on hold this spring while a three-month review of scientific data is done. The study is being commissioned by the Mi’kmaq Rights Initiative.

 

The province issued a partial work stoppage in late October after the Mi’kmaq community complained it had not been properly consulted about how treaty and fishing rights would be affected."

 

 Some strange dealings, to say the least. It would appear that decisions are made far before we, the people, hear about them.

 

We'll see.

 

Terran


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#165 Shimanoman

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 09:41 AM

Terry,

             While I applaud your vigilance and tenacity in keeping us appraised about developments regarding the proposed storage plant, I feel that perhaps the progress (or lack of it) and process, may be being viewed with possibly an overly jaundiced eye.  From where I sit, with limited information, relying primarily upon your goodself for that information, this company, (Alta)appears to be operating in an ethical manner.  Other businesses could do a whole lot worse than follow their example.  Every time there has been a legitimate objection by a legitimate group representing community or ecology, they seem to have politely stepped back and allowed whatever process to carry on.  They have not, to my knowledge violated any environmental laws or been charged in courts with any offences (unlike the folks at Cooke Aquaculture).  I feel that their corporate behavior has been exemplary on a go forward basis.and might possibly serve as a template for other corporate behaviors. Perhaps we should cut them some slack but only, and if,in future, they deserve it.  After all, business is the backbone of our country.  BTW, I have no stocks in the company nor do I know anyone connected to it.  Just a thought.

 

 

Regards....


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#166 Terran

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 04:24 PM

Ian,

 

I appreciate and respect your input on this matter.

 

My concern is (and will always be) whether the proper science has been done and/or regarded with respect to the approval for this project.

 

Certainly DFO has proven less than spectacular lately when it comes to stepping up to their mandate and with our newly weakened Enviromental Assessment standards, one can only worry if the bases have been covered.

 

My concern lies here and not with AltaGas. The Company may be totally innocent in all of this, however if there is a mistake made here it could certainly be a one time disaster with no "do-overs". Once the damage is done it will be irrepairable.

 

I am by no means anti-commerce or against legitimate business expansion. I am however extremely skeptical as to whether the Government is doing it's "due diligence" in protecting the Environment and our Ecology.

 

We'll see.

 

Thanks Ian,

 

Terran/Terry


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#167 Terran

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 12:22 PM

The Province has granted permits for the Alton Gas Project.

 

Province grants permits for Alton Gas storage projecthttp://thechronicleh...storage-project

 

So it begins. I'm sure that there are factions that will battle this decision.

 

Let us hope that the science that this decision was based upon is more sound than that which many past decisions have been made incorrectly.

 

Ultimately, this is a one off. If it goes bad there will be no second chances. I simply still do not see the benefit outweighing the risk in this decision. (?) And too who(m) does it benefit?

 

Far greater benefit of a healthy Striped Bass spawning river to the Provinces population than an economic eyesore and possible ecological catastrophe that represents a few jobs and great profits for offshore interests.

 

Not to mention the possibility of the "BIG BANG" and the new Stewiacke Crater (er Lake?). Natural Gas does go BOOM occasionally...does it not?

 

Here's hoping the best. For all our sakes.

 

Terran


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#168 Terran

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:43 AM

Apparently, but not surprisingly, others are not so happy with the permit approval. 

 

Art Redden, who has lived on the Shubenacadie River in Enfield for 37 years, said he has no faith in the project and the government’s ability to monitor the situation. He was present for Samson’s announcement.
 
“It’s another case of the fox guarding the hen house,” said Redden.
 
“I have no trust for it. … I don’t want to see the equivalent of 50 tandem truckloads of salt go in the river every day for the next three years.”
 
EXACTLY.
 
Here is a link to the story that the above quote is taken from: http://thechronicleh...as-storage-plan
 
Really don't have faith in Government oversight or it's ability to make sane decisions. (Can you blame a guy?)
 
Terran

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#169 Terran

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 11:57 AM

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A woman holds a sign along a major Nova Scotia highway in opposition to the construction of a natural gas storage facility near Stewiacke, N.S. on September 29, 2014. (CP)

 

As expected, the Indian Brook First Nation is protesting the Governments approval of the Alton Gas Project and the potential damaging effects it could pose to the Shubinacadie River and the species that call it home. 

 

In my opinion, this action should be supported and applauded. The mere chance of the loss that this project could potentially cause is sufficient enough to be cause for deep concern and perhaps it's veto.

 

Here is the article addressing the Indian Brook opposition:

 

Aboriginal band in N.S. challenging natural gas storage project

Published February 18, 2016 - 9:10am 
Last Updated February 18, 2016 - 9:16am
 
INDIAN BROOK, N.S. — An aboriginal band in Nova Scotia is challenging the provincial government’s recent decision to approve a new underground natural gas storage facility.
 
The Indian Brook First Nation has issued a statement saying it will submit an appeal to the provincial environment minister, saying the Alton Natural Gas storage facility north of Halifax should not be built.
 
The band says the appeal is aimed at the industrial approval granted to Alton to operate a brine storage pond at Fort Ellis, N.S.
 
Last month, Energy Minister Michel Samson said the province believes the project is safe and doesn’t threaten the environment.
 
Samson said the province granted approval after a thorough scientific assessment and consultations with the Assembly of Nova Scotia Mi’kmaq Chiefs and the Indian Brook First Nation.
 
The project was put on hold in late 2014 after Mi’kmaq protesters complained that the company had failed to consult with the local native community.
 
The Government assuring a "thorough scientific assessment" is far from reassuring based on past performance in the area of industry approvals based on "their" assessments.
 
There is nothing wrong with progress and new business, as long as it doesn't jeopardize the environment or species at risk. Too often, the value of our natural wealth has been overlooked and squandered for a quick buck, a few jobs and some Government schmuck taking credit for our great economic advancement.
 
Here is an article that I think may be of value in this instance: Benefits of Nova Scotia's Natural Assets - http://thechronicleh...-natural-assets  
 
I am sure that the Company involved has the best of intentions, however this alone is no guarantee. Should the project have detrimental affect on the river and the Striped Bass (for instance) there is no way of knowing the potential for long term damage.
 
Not worth the risk...in my opinion.
 
Terran 

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#170 Terran

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 09:38 PM

"Province negligent in letting salt be pumped into local rivers" says clean technology business consultant and environmentalist.

 

Now THAT I don't find shocking.

 

So here's the story from the Chronicle Herald:

 

Province negligent in letting salt be pumped into local rivers: environmentalist

THE CHRONICLE HERALD 
Published March 18, 2016 - 8:14pm 
 
Consultant says brine could be treated to recover salt before it’s pumped into river
 
A Truro environmentalist says the province is being negligent in letting salt be pumped into local rivers while overlooking a proposal that could see it removed and sold.
 
Alton Natural Gas Storage LP is preparing to carve out underground salt deposits to create caverns to store natural gas. The water pumped in to dissolve the salt will then be piped into the Shubenacadie River system.
 
Doug Neil, a clean technology business consultant, said he suggested an alternative to government last June. But he says they haven’t directed Alton to look at it and Alton has ignored it.
 
The company plans to store natural gas in three 1,000-metre-deep underground salt caverns near Stewiacke after drilling holes into them, pumping water down and salty water out. The water will come from the river estuary near Fort Ellis and will be pumped 12 kilometres through a pipeline to a storage site in Alton before being sent into the caverns.
 
The facility will be linked to the Maritimes and Northeast Pipeline natural gas transmission system.
 
Neil says a Lethbridge, Alta., company, Noah Water Technologies Ltd., has a plan to divert the salty water, recover salt and other chemicals from it and sell the resulting product. But they’ve had no response from the government or Alton either.
 
“Alton will put the salt into the ocean and throw that resource away,” said Neil. “There will be impacts. The risk is there and no one knows what the damage will be.”
 
Alton’s parent company, Calgary’s AltaGas, has said the $130-million project, in the works since 2002, will save natural gas consumers $17 million annually by maintaining a supply during winter months when prices typically rise. Construction started in 2008 and drilling has been completed on the three storage caverns.
 
The company hopes to be operational by 2018 or 2019. The project was delayed by First Nations appeals about potential impacts on fish, and studies that resulted in changes, including a requirement that Alton stop releasing brine for 24 days — up from 14 — during peak striped bass spawning periods.
 
“After thorough scientific assessment, various consultations and amendments to the project plans, government believes the project is safe and does not threaten the environment. The next phase of the project can move ahead,” said Energy Minister Michel Samson when approvals were granted in January after a partial work stoppage was ordered last July to allow for further consultation and study.
 
Government now says it will allow the company to operate a brine storage pond, lease submerged Crown land to complete the dispersion channel, and construct a dyke on Crown land. In addition to the bass spawning extension, the project-monitoring program must include new protocols and increased frequency, and Alton must create a community liaison committee and Mi'kmaq engagement in the ongoing science and monitoring plan.
 
Six appeals filed by applicants opposed to the decision have been received by Nova Scotia Environment, said spokesman Bruce Nunn. The department has 60 days to review them and render a decision.
 
Meanwhile, the industrial approval as issued remains in effect. Nunn said the project will require an approval and permit for the construction and operation of a compressor station at the cavern site. For the gas pipeline portion, the company may also require approvals to alter watercourses.
 
“NSE’s role as a regulator is to review the option that Alton proposed for releasing the brine to determine if it is safe for the environment,” he said. “The department does not prescribe the method by which the company manages the brine.”
 
Canada has a strong clean tech sector that’s largely being ignored by government, said Neil. “They need to step up to the plate and take things to the next level. These companies are knocking on doors and banging heads with government but the politicians are still listening to the fossil fuel companies.”
 
He said Alton’s plan would see 1.5 million tonnes of salt brine going into the river annually, when Noah or another company could turn it back into salt products and sell them worldwide for about $150 million, with royalties of three to 10 per cent going to government — all for a cost of only $100 million.
 
Randy Christie, president and CEO of Noah Water Technologies, said his proposal has been talked about for the past couple of years and was sent to both parties but he isn’t optimistic it will go anywhere. His company is now more focused on treating water from the ‘fracking’ process used in natural gas extraction.
 
“There was a sound economic case for it,” he said of the Alton proposal. “It just takes creativity. But Alton wasn’t looking outside the box.”
 
AltaGas Ltd. spokeswoman Sandra Semple said the company received an unsolicited proposal to do a pilot project from Noah Water Technologies last year.
 
She said Alton looked at a number of alternatives for discharging the brine, including underground injection, selling it to salt producers, supplying brine de-icing roads and producing salt.
 
“Following discussions with several third parties, including salt producers and Nova Scotia Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, these commercial options were not found to be feasible,” she said in an email.
 
Alton’s lease with the province also forbids the company from trading, selling or giving away the salt.
 

 

There is a cleaner, safer alternative that could actually generate revenue for the Province and our elected morons would rather take the path of least resistance (for them). (?)  And risk the potential damage in the process?

 

Who is making money here? I wonder.

 

The bile factor on this project is reaching the projectile level. As I stated earlier, I have absolutely no confidence in the decision that has been made by our "Government" and their interpretation of the "science".

 

Now we find out the whole ass-headed scheme could be avoided and replaced with something that makes sense. (WTF?)

 

If you like Striped Bass and fishing the Shubie for Christsake write Energy Minister Michel Samson and tell the idio... um...gentleman to please stop the bullshit and do HIS job.

 

This is simply political foolishness and we should ALL be sick of it.

 

Terran

 

(My opinion anyway. Hope others will see it for what it is.)


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#171 Terran

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Posted 24 March 2016 - 01:06 PM

Now that the "Evil Empire" of Stephen Harper has passed into the history books, scientists are coming out of their hiding spots and finally speaking out against the damage that "Stevie" and his Omni-Bullshit Bills have done to our Country's protections for the Environment.

 

In today's Chronicle Herald, a story regarding the call for the fixing of some of the damage appears.

 

Scientists want federal government to restore fisheries protection

THE CANADIAN PRESS 
Published March 24, 2016 - 12:34pm 
Last Updated March 24, 2016 - 12:45pm
 
Prominent scientists and environmental groups are urging the federal Liberals to hurry up and repair what they see as damage to fisheries done by the previous government.
 
"We request that previous habitat protections be immediately reinstated in the Fisheries Act," says a letter signed by 47 individuals and organizations.
 
The signatories run from the World Wildlife Fund to the B.C. Federation of Fly Fishers and include researchers such as David Schindler from the University of Alberta, whose work revealed some of the earliest evidence that the oilsands were releasing contaminants.
 
"The time to start is quickly," said signatory John Smol, an ecologist at Queen's University in Kingston, Ont.
 
"Delay in the environment costs us dearly. Nature is very slow to pardon mistakes."
 
The letter asks Federal Fisheries Minister Hunter Tootoo to repeal changes made under the Harper Conservatives in a controversial 2012 omnibus bill. Those changes removed prohibitions against the harmful alteration, damage or destruction of any fishery. Attention was instead focused on commercial fisheries.
 
"One of the biggest factors that affect fish abundance is habitat," said Smol. "We have to restore habitat protection."
 
Smol pointed out the changes came as fisheries began to face threats, including climate change, invasive species and new contaminants.
 
"If anything, we have to strengthen the act. Instead, it was weakened."
 
Protecting commercially valuable fish without protecting the habitat for all fish just doesn't work, said Linda Nowlan of the West Coast Environmental Law Centre.
 
"I don't think we humans are capable of picking which parts of nature need protection. You need to look at the ecosystem as a whole."
 
Tootoo has been instructed by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to restore the protections.
 
"Work with the minister of transport to review the previous government’s changes to the Fisheries and Navigable Waters Protection Acts, restore lost protections and incorporate modern safeguards," says Tootoo's mandate letter from Trudeau.
 
In an emailed response about the letter, Tootoo said: "I ... look forward to consulting with scientists, environmentalists and indigenous peoples in finding the best path forward to safeguard our oceans and waterways.
 
"We share the same goals and I appreciate very much the advice provided by these organizations, some of which I have already met."
 
After he gets done with that, Tootoo can move on to reforming the 150-year-old act to put science at its heart and with a view to the future, Smol suggested.
 
"We want long-term thinking. We don't want typical mandate thinking of four years."
 
An amended act should limit the discretion of politicians to override scientific evidence and enshrine cautions that ensure future generations enjoy the same fisheries as Canadians do today, said Nowlan.
 
"They need to make their decisions in accordance with modern environmental law principles."
 
Thursday's letter is the latest open letter from scientists hoping to influence government policy. Two such letters this month — one criticizing studies into liquefied natural gas exports in British Columbia and another discouraging investment in fossil fuel infrastructure  — have already been sent to the federal Liberals.
 
Scientists are hoping the new government will listen more closely to their warnings than did the previous administration, Smol said.
 
"We're seeing the muzzling of scientists being changed. We have issues that we think need looking at and we think we have a government that will pay some attention to it."
 
— Follow Bob Weber on Twitter at @row1960

 

 

Perhaps the ludicrous mess that was created may possibly be undone?

 

Now, the question arises, "Will this change affect decisions that have already been made?".

 

In particular, would the Alton Gas brining be acceptable should the habitat protections be reinstated?

 

This project certainly falls into this category. Hopefully, if protections are brought back, to at least their former state, this project will have a bit of light shone upon it once again.

 

Certainly, the endangerment of a species at risk and the possible disruption of the species sole spawning grounds in our Province requires another look. Not to mention how this brining will effect the plant, insect and smaller creatures in the estuary.

 

Maybe there is still hope to get this project..."adjusted".

 

Terran


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#172 Terran

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:26 PM

 
“Do the right thing. Protect our land and protect our water,” Millbrook Chief Bob Gloade

 

Just to keep folks in the loop, here is an article regarding a protest at Province House today (April 14/16).

 

Mi’kmaq band members protest storage of natural gas in Stewiacke salt caverns (Photos): http://thechronicleh...iacke-salt-cave

 

Several members of the group, which included representatives of Solidarity Halifax and the Council of Canadians, pounded on the doors of the legislature, chanting for Premier Stephen McNeil to come out, to no avail. But NDP leader Gary Burrill and MLA Lenore Zann did, and spoke to the crowd.

 

Stephen didn't want to come out and play? How rude...

 

Typical politician. Hide when the going gets tough.

 

By the way, isn't "Salting the Earth" a bad thing? Historically I mean. See "Salting the Earth (Romans) : https://en.wikipedia...lting_the_earth

 

And you might want to check out: Soil Salinity https://en.wikipedia...i/Soil_salinity

 

Terran

 

(P.S.: Anybody know about this "hi-lighting thing that's going on here and how it gets turned on and off?)


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#173 Shimanoman

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 09:11 PM

"Salting the earth" was a very famous ceremony performed (among others) by Scipio Africanus the general who sacked Carthage.  Plowing salt under symbolically so that the Carthaginians would never rise again - and they never did!.  I suspect it was only a "token" salting though, as Roman soldiers were often paid in salt because of its great value in the ancient world.

 

Regards....


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#174 Terran

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Posted 17 April 2016 - 09:40 PM

Hey Ian,

 

(LOL) Guess if it's good for the Romans; maybe we should be getting paid for our salt too? In Post#170 a Consultant suggests that the salt could generate some capital.

 

Maybe we should start paying our politicians in salt...cause that's all they're worth! (Badumpdump :D  :lol: ) If they ARE worth their salt. (?)

 

It would be interesting to find if the effects of the brine has been taken into consideration with regards to plant life in the estuary and surrounding area? Will increased concentrations have deleterious effects in the long term?

 

Just not sure the river is prepared for "asSALT with a deadly weapon". I know...really bad PUN.  :blink:

 

Take care my friend,

 

Terran


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#175 Terran

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Posted 29 May 2016 - 08:27 PM

More protests to the "salting" of the Shubenacadie for the profit of those who could care less. 

 

 

Opposition to Alton natural gas storage project not going away: aboriginal affairs critic

THE CHRONICLE HERALD 
Published May 29, 2016 - 5:19pm 
 
Opposition to the Alton natural gas storage project isn’t going away any time soon, says the NDP’s aboriginal affairs critic.
 
Up to 100 people slowed traffic along Highway 102 near Stewiacke for several hours Saturday, handing out information brochures to motorists who were slowed and funneled into one southbound lane.
 
Area MLA Lenore Zann, who doubles as her party’s aboriginal affairs critic, attended the event, which was organized by community members opposed to the $130-million project. She said they wanted to bring attention and awareness to the issue.
 
“This is just the beginning,” she said in a phone interview Sunday. “The First Nations and the non-native communities are resolved to prevent this from going ahead.”
 
Alton Natural Gas Storage LP, a subsidiary of Calgary-based AltaGas Ltd., has received provincial government approval to store natural gas in three 1,000-metre-deep underground salt caverns in Alton, near Stewiacke, and then distribute it from there via pipelines to customers around the province.
 
Protesters object to the plan to pump salty water from the caverns and dump it in the local river system and filed six unsuccessful appeals of the project.
 
Almost since the project was announced in 2002, local residents and First Nations have warned of negative impacts the salt brine would have on fish stocks, prompting government to halt construction and demand that it not be released during peak striped bass spawning season.
 
Zann said that isn’t good enough, noting that the Shubenacadie River system will have nine billion litres of salt brine poured into it every day.
 
“People were not consulted properly and the government has acted in a way that’s disrespectful to First Nations people in the area,” she said, adding that the impacts of this process are largely unknown since the company has never tried this anywhere else.
 
“Why take a chance? They’re just taking the easy way out and the First Nations people and others feel strongly opposed to this.”
 
The company says it has been meeting with landowners, community members, government and First Nations since 2006 and will continue to do so.
 
The Millbrook and Sipekne’katik First Nations are appealing the provincial government’s decision to green light the project to the Supreme Court of Canada. No date for that hearing has been announced.

 

This is a staggering statistic:

 

"...noting that the Shubenacadie River system will have nine billion litres of salt brine poured into it every day."

 

Um, how does this NOT affect the river and the flora and fauna therein?

 

Can anyone produce the "SCIENCE" that our diligent government types approved this crap shoot based on?

 

Most life is predicated on a fine balance of circumstances. Sure there is a little give and take. Perhaps if the salt were raised incrementally over a long period things could adjust, however we are talking 9 BILLION Litres EVERY DAY!

 

I'd like to see Stephen McNeill sit in that for a few weeks.

 

Say what you will, here's to the Aboriginal folks for standing up for this issue. Thanks.

 

Terran


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#176 Shimanoman

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Posted 21 June 2016 - 07:53 PM

Terran, 

            I really don't know where ms Zahn gets her fiqures but in quickly going over them,I discovered that, if they were correct, it would mean that every second of every day, during the season for pumping,(pre supposing that there was no shut down during a 365 day cycle of one year)there would be approx 62.5 cubic meters of brine (3750 cubic meters per minute) being pumped into the river.  That is one hell of a lot of brine, the pipe required to do this would be absolutely massive and the brine flow would, no doubt, easily exceed the actual flow of the river.  (Where would all this water come from in the first place?)   I suspect that this playing fast and loose with figures is very much similar to the one scenario that someone else earlier postulated and was, too, grossly exaggerated.  I'm sure that you are very much aware (stated in the survey paper) that the river with its varying current flows does not purge itself completely during one tidal cycle so that the numbers used by ms Zahn are hogwash and an absolute impossibility.  I would like to see numbers and figures put forward by scientists which are based in fact, and which can be peer reviewed. Definitely not political folks with something to gain and whose hair is obviously on fire.

 

Regards


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#177 Terran

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 12:24 PM

Hi Ian,

 

I'm not so sure anybody has a full take on this deal. The numbers are funky and most likely Ms Zahn was inaccurate, however I believe I read where we are talking 1.3 million cubic meters of salt to be "gradually" dumped into the environment. That means either a very long process OR a great deal of dilution.

 

DFO's,  " SCIENTIFIC REVIEW OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL REGISTRATION DOCUMENT FOR THE PROPOSED ALTON NATURAL GAS STORAGE PROJECT " (http://publications....007-013-eng.pdf )

addresses this very issue under "Exposure"
 
It is doubtful that any information concerning the effects of exposure to brine (at varying
concentrations) is available for any or most of the diadromous species present within the
Shubenacadie River Estuary. However, the infrastructure and expertise to assess the effects of
exposure to brine on juvenile diadromous fish is available at a local university. The need to look
at exposure effects would be contingent upon the relative difference between the chemical
composition of the brine and seawater occurring naturally in the river. If the proponent cannot
produce information that shows the chemical properties of the brine at the point of discharge:
 
a) does not differ from that of seawater, and
b ) would not harm fish at the proposed dilution, upon release into the river,
 
then it is recommended that studies be scheduled to assess both the lethal and sub-lethal
effects of exposure, minimally on juvenile striped bass. 

 

The "Conclusion" to this 2007 document is interesting as well.

 

The Shubenacadie River Estuary at the proposed location of water withdrawal and discharge for
the Alton Salt Dome project is a dynamic receiving environment possessing a high level of
natural variability, which has not been fully characterized within the Environmental Registration
document. Existing uncertainties associated with natural variability in the underlying physical
and climatological dynamics of, and their interaction within, the receiving environment
complicate the task of prediction of potential environmental effects on aquatic ecosystem
components. Both the design and implementation of measures to mitigate the impacts to
aquatic ecosystem components, such as the timing of brine discharge, may be therefore equally
complicated.
 
Given the presence of a species listed as endangered species under the Species at Risk Act
(inner Bay of Fundy salmon) and other regionally rare and sensitive species (striped bass and
Atlantic sturgeon), it is expected that a lower than average level of risk tolerance may be applied
to projects proposed for this environment. At present, the Environmental Registration document
contains insufficient information to enable full evaluation and risk assessment of the potential
impacts to aquatic ecosystem components, including species at risk.
 
Given that advice has not been provided by DFO Maritimes Science on this type of project in
the past, and given that this is only a preliminary evaluation of the information contained within
the Environmental Registration, it is recommended that a DFO-led scientific peer review
meeting be conducted to more fully evaluate the scientific and technical information available for
this project, to discuss additional mitigation and monitoring options, to determine what
information may be required (if any) to address outstanding knowledge gaps. 

 

Have looked but haven't been able to find if those "knowledge gaps" have been filled.

 

I am also curious if there might be a loophole in the law that is somehow being utilized here?

 

Let's see if I can make some sense of my thinking.

 

Under the Fisheries Act, Section 35: " No person shall carry on any work, undertaking or activity that results in serious harm to fish that are part of a commercial, recreational or Aboriginal fishery, or to fish that support such a fishery".

 

“Serious Harm” is defined as the death of fish or any permanent alteration to, or destruction of, fish habitat  (e.g., infilling, dredging, blasting, etc.) but does not cover impacts related to changes in water chemistry. 

 

Salt and salinity would be considered a "change in water chemistry" and therefore could be considered a "deleterious substance".

 

Impacts related to the deposit of a deleterious substance is addressed in Section 36(3) of the Fisheries Act which states, “no person shall deposit or permit the deposit of a deleterious substance of any type in water frequented by fish or in any place under any conditions where the deleterious substance or any other deleterious substance that results from the deposit of the deleterious substance may enter any such water.” 

 

This Section of the Act is administered by Environment Canada. And weren't Environmental Assessments neutered by one of the Omnibus Bills? (See:  Bill C-38: the Environmental Destruction Act    http://thetyee.ca/Op...05/10/Bill-C38/  ) Yet even under the new regulations, this project would seem to raise some flags. 

 

So who is being tasked to address this issue? DFO? Environment Canada? Both?

 

Let's see the science. As you stated, "I would like to see numbers and figures put forward by scientists which are based in fact, and which can be peer reviewed."

 

I continue to search for answers to questions that should easily be found in Public Record, yet seem to be more elusive than one would hope. Projects, such as this, should have ALL materials compiled under one file name (such as Alton Brine Project: Shubinacadie River) and be available on a Government Database for the public's access.

 

However, that may lead to more "problems" for those making the decisions.

 

To put it simply Ian, there is a **** pile of salt about to be dumped into a river and the Government doesn't seem to have a handle on the details. Even a politician, who should have access to the info, seems to be "confused".

 

My hope is that, when all is said and done, we don't look back on this and wish more questions were properly answered before going ahead with the project. 

 

Here's hoping for "no regrets".

 

Take care, my friend,

 

Terran


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"In these sad and ominous days of mad fortune chasing, every patriotic, thoughtful citizen, whether he fishes or not, should lament that we have not among our countrymen more fishermen."  Grover Cleveland
 





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