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Alton Gas Brine


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#21 Striped Bass

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:12 PM

I have sent a few emails to DFO looking for some answers on this project and the science to back it up and I am waiting a response. I will have to post the response on here so we can all get a good laugh. That is if I get a valid response instead of the run around that I have been getting from Cosewic. and SARA. At least we will all be able to heat our houses with cheap natural gas lol.


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#22 OleNewfieDog

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:13 PM

 

  1.  We are just ignored as a small thorn in the road to prosperity!

 

 

Perry! Nice to see you posting on the site again.

 

The road to prosperity is paved with Earth natural resources; renewables, and nonrenewables.  Some day Earth will stop providing the ashphalt. Then humanity will learn the lesson.  (World Wildlife Fund has already stated a major correction is coming.)


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Personal hook & line records:
Chain Pickerel - 24" 4lbs
Small Mouth Bass - 19.25" and 2lbs 1oz
Trout - 10"
Yellow Perch - 8"
Brown Bullhead - 10"
Shark - 120" Blue (dad's line actually :P )
Atlantic Cod - 36" (25 to 30 lbs approx)
Mackerel - tinkers
Scoulpin - who cares :angry:

#23 Striped Bass

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 08:40 PM

Here is the email that I sent to COSEWIC : 
 
Hello, To whom it may concern:
 
My name is                 and I am a licenced fishing guide who works part time on the Stewiacke/Shubenacadie River.
I am writing with concern about the Alton Gas natural gas project that is taking place on the Shubenacadie River in Nova Scotia.
Cosewic lists the Bay of Fundy Striped Bass population as endangered due to the fact that the Shuenacadie River is the only spawning population left in the Bay of Fundy.
I have been doing a lot of research from the environmental assessments that were completed for Alton Gas, and have been doing a lot of research on what the optimal conditions are for Striped Bass spawning and nursery grounds and I can not see how this is going to work at all. There is no possible way that the salinity levels will remain at a tolerable level for survival and there are many more problems with the amount of river water they will be extracting. The numbers are quite staggering and the pumping and mixing station are right where all of the hatchlings need to be in the river to survive the first weeks of life.
I am in the education process on my research and I invite you to educate me on how all of this will work to ensure that the Bay of Fundy Striped bass population does not become extinct.
Thank you
 
And here is the response that I got, I deleted a bunch of contact info that he sent me, but they were all from the maritime region office in Dartmouth.
 
Hi. I was passed your email regarding the striped bass and proposed gas
developments on the Shubie/Stewiake rivers.

I am the fwf co-chair and now chair of COSEWIC. I did handle the report,
but as a west coaster have only really  passing knowledge of striped bass
(although I have fished the Stewiake River myself for salmon some time
ago).

Anyway, I would suggest that you perhaps contact the following folks who
have better knowledge of this animal and the area wrt the gas development.


They are all located at the Dartmouth office in Maritimes region.  The
Gulf region (Moncton) office only works on the Miramichi/southern gulf
Striped Bass.

Attached is a DFO science document that was prepared several years ago
about this project in the earlier planning phases.   The Fisheries
Protection Program (what replaced the habitat program after the changes to
the fisheries act) would also be involved in this.
is the regional manager for that program.

Dr. Paul , Dalhousie Biology.   might also be of
some help (works mostly on genetics).

You can fin the original author of the COSEWIC report just before the
Literature cited (Bourque) and he may of of some help.

Eric B. (Rick) Taylor
Professor
Department of Zoology
Director and Curator of Fishes
Beaty Biodiversity Museum
6270 University Blvd.,
Vancouver, BC V6T 1Z4
 
 
There is not much of an answer there now is there.

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#24 Shimanoman

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Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:49 PM

                                                                W  O  W  ! ! !  

                            That response  certainly inspires a lot of confidence in me.


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Life is too short, to take too much, too seriously, for too long ....Vernon P.Fraser

#25 Perry

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:23 AM

As a hunter of migratory birds I know that because of the fact that migratory birds know no boundaries that management and laws have to ensure the continuing productivity of the species. No country that hosts these birds can exploit them to the extent that the population is endangered. This is the Migratory Bird Convention 1995.  So is there an agreement on Migratory Fish? If not why not? The population of stripers we fish for is a mix between American and Canadian. We take great risks with fish that are not entirely ours eg. tidal power developments and now after eliminating two major spawning rivers by building damns we now place the last one at risk and we seem to be at odds with the very people we hired to porotect our resources.


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Just because you fish a lot doen't mean you are great or even good. It just means you fish a lot!!


#26 fishing fanatic

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:27 AM

http://www.cbc.ca/m/...oject-1.2776162
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#27 Luciano

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 10:53 AM

I just sent off my email to the government about this. I copied the Premier, all of the MP's, MLA's and Cabinet ministers involved with fisheries or the environment. I urge all of you to do the same. All letters become a part of public record.


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#28 pmorris

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 12:42 PM

Let me get this straight...

 

There's a lot of natural gas underground, so we plan to extract it.

 

But because we can't use it, we need to store it... underground.

 

Is that pretty much it?


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I started reading a book about anti-gravity and I just couldn't put it down.


#29 Luciano

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 01:10 PM

Let me get this straight...

 

There's a lot of natural gas underground, so we plan to extract it.

 

But because we can't use it, we need to store it... underground.

 

Is that pretty much it

you forgot the part about some government offical getting paid off


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#30 Striped Bass

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 04:42 PM

The natural gas will be stored to supply the New England States in the winter time when demand is at its peak. The Sable gas sight does not produce the volume of gas that it once did.


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#31 StripperGuide

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Posted 24 September 2014 - 06:02 PM

Naitives just announced today they werenot contacted on this and it should have never moved forward.


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#32 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:05 AM

Say this all goes down and they do finish and begin pumping, what can we do then? I've been thinking about this and the fall out from such a disaster. I for one won't stand around when I goes down. I've confronted poachers with force before and these clowns are no different. The more I think about it the more I think about my son, the next generation, and the footprint ours leaves. If it becomes operational....I hate to say it but your gonna see Bass_Slayer on the CTV news. I know I won't be alone.

  This site has the most passionate fishermen in the province trolling it and from time to time we clash with one another, that is no secret, but sneak around legislation and manipulate all of us coltectivly ....not a wise move. It looks bad...it looks like someone was payed off , but the one thing they havn't taken into account is what happens after there operational. The fishermen and Natives are going to see the bass slowly (or rapidly) disappear and where this is the last spawning grounds for Bay of Fundy striped bass, there will be a rebellion. That I can Promise


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#33 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 12:09 PM

There is a presentation tonight at Stewiake town Hall at 7pm. Alton Gas is putting on the presentation and is open to the public.


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#34 Linesider

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 04:43 PM

There is a presentation tonight at Stewiake town Hall at 7pm. Alton Gas is putting on the presentation and is open to the public.

Wish i had known about this :( and i totally agree with all you said above


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#35 Shimanoman

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 08:04 PM

BS,  With Respect,

      This is NOT the last spawning ground for Stripers in Canada.  It is the last of 3 previous ones, all on the Bay of Fundy.  There are other locations still viable in Canada.  If we, as recreational anglers wish to have our voices heard and actually listened to, we MUST do our homework and research, provide legitimate, well thought out arguments which will stand up to examination by the most critical eyes (the folks whose minds you are trying to change and influence (policy makers and most likely the same politicians you  accuse of being "paid off")).  We, as a group, must be smarter than that by keeping our personal vitriol in check.  We then, as a lobby group will have retained our credibility and will not provide any policy maker with the ammunition to be able to write us off as a bunch of ill-informed rednecks not worthy of their attention.

 

       Believe it or not, some of those same folks (or their advisers) actually read posts in forums such as these.

 

Regards..... 


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Life is too short, to take too much, too seriously, for too long ....Vernon P.Fraser

#36 Bass_Slayer

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Posted 25 September 2014 - 09:13 PM

SM,

Sorry in a passionate moment I wrote canadian instead of BOF and have toned the post down a notch. I've known the patterns and populations for years, just a simple typo on my part my apologies.  I hope they do read my post so they might understand the severity of this... Ive also restated thats it "looks bad" and it "looks like" someone was payed off along the way. How else would it have gotten this far? You tell me? Legally?  Somebodies getting PAID


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#37 SalmoSolar

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 05:14 AM

BS,  With Respect,

      This is NOT the last spawning ground for Stripers in Canada.  It is the last of 3 previous ones, all on the Bay of Fundy.  There are other locations still viable in Canada.  If we, as recreational anglers wish to have our voices heard and actually listened to, we MUST do our homework and research, provide legitimate, well thought out arguments which will stand up to examination by the most critical eyes (the folks whose minds you are trying to change and influence (policy makers and most likely the same politicians you  accuse of being "paid off")).  We, as a group, must be smarter than that by keeping our personal vitriol in check.  We then, as a lobby group will have retained our credibility and will not provide any policy maker with the ammunition to be able to write us off as a bunch of ill-informed rednecks not worthy of their attention.

 

       Believe it or not, some of those same folks (or their advisers) actually read posts in forums such as these.

 

Regards..... 

you actually think the same government is going to listen to you and take you seriously? thats as bad as being told to write the same politicians who were paid off.   while you were worried about building your credibility the fish died. o and how about THEIR credibility?  all of the points you make shimanoman while they are good points. the reality is its been being done for years by some really great groups and look where we are. the only change that ever happens is for the worst not the better.   THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT GOING TO HELP STOP THE DESTRUCTION OF THE LAND AND WATERS. 

and if they do read forums  like these then i hope they understand just how badly they have FAILED!!!      


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#38 Striped Bass

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Posted 26 September 2014 - 06:40 PM

The meeting at the town council last night was a presentation to council by Alton Gas and it was quite scary in the fact that the council really has no idea at all how much extra salt this will add to the river. They asked no questions to find out any numbers, or science from Alton Gas. I wonder how much in the dark the rest of our provincial government and federal government officials really are about this project. I would like someone else on here to do some math for me because the number that I came up with is so high, I think I have to be wrong.

There will be 9000m3 of 26%, or 260ppt salt content brine water coming into there facility daily to be diluted to 25ppt before released into the river. How many metric tonnes of salt is in that much brine?


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#39 Suprdave

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 06:04 AM

 My math may not be correct either but here goes...1 m3 of pure, distilled fresh water is equal to 1 metric tonne or (1000 kg). Obviously, salt water has a higher mass/m3 due to the higher density, but if we figure on the conservative side, then 25 % for each ton being dumped has 250 kg of salt in it. Multiply this by 9000 (since m3 equals tonnes) and I come up with 2,250,000 kg (or 2250 metric tonnes)of salt being dumped each day. Is that what you come up with SB?


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When the last tree is cut,
When the last fish is eaten,
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#40 pmorris

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Posted 27 September 2014 - 07:25 AM

I think the math looks correct, but the issue may not be one of the mass of salt; rather, it may be the impact on salinity. What is the salinity of the river? Is the dilution intended to match the salinity?


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I started reading a book about anti-gravity and I just couldn't put it down.





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